[stavcoby]

One of my biggest challenge in songwriting, for me,  is fitting what I want to say into the melody i have created.

People like Bob Dylan and Paul Simon are relentless in doing this.  Their lyrics transcend imagery and meaning with  counter meanings like its a novel, yet they do this within their melody structure and meter.

Ive been reading a lot of verse and poetry lately and would really like to get more depth in my lyrics but feel restricted by the number of beats / structure ext

Anyone else get this? and tips?

Steve

[Paulski]

I would recommend rather than as you say:

fitting what I want to say into the melody i have created

you should try creating a melody based on the lyrics that you write. The advantage of this approach is that the natural "ups" and "downs" in your voice frequency are more likely to become the ups and downs in the melody - and consequently the song sounds more conversational. Meter falls out of this quite nicely too - sometimes your lyrics have a 5/4 or 3/4 or 6/8 and you may be trying to force them on a 4/4 meter melody line..
My 2 cents CAD
cheers
Paul

[tone]

Paul makes a good point, but I think it's worth talking about the other Paul (Simon) for a sec.

To say he spends a long time on his lyrics is understating it. In fact, the better the lyric, the longer the time spent writing it I'm willing to bet.

I think breaking free from your song structure can be a brilliant thing for lyric writing. Sometimes I abandon meter and rhyme altogether and just write line after line of whatever comes out. Some of it (most of it) is shite, but occasionally, some gems pop up. Plus, it's a great way of moving the not-so-good stuff out of your songwriting pipes.

Some of my best lyrics have taken weeks to write, night after night, trying bits out, throwing bits away, till you find that magic turn of phrase. When I play the songs I'm sure  most people think I just sat down and wrote it, but if only they knew!

Take your time. Be ruthless. Know what you want to say, or some of the things you want to say. The rest will follow.

And if you manage to enjoy it while you're at it, all the better.

[S.T.C]

I think being able to write is a bit of a gift,topped up with understanding structure and stuff like that.....i can only speak from my own methods and experience .
Writing for your own pleasure and writing for the industry are two completely different things.When i first started ,i wrote pretty much what appealed to me,now i'm focused on what makes catchy, saleable songs.

But whatever your motives are , to improve the quality of your lyrics, you must first become a better storyteller......you have to storyboard each scene,each sentence out in your mind... see the detail, and include some of it in the song.......and i can't emphasize enough to listen as much as you can,,preferably on Youtube (so you get the visuals as well)  the music of your genre..and break it all down , then reassemble it,,see how it works,,how professionals do it.

[EpiphoneEpiphany]

hey 

I'm struggling with getting both good lyrics and good melodies as well

I think you can always get brilliant melodies when you write the melody first
if you write the lyrics first and fit a melody onto the lyrics you only sometimes get good melodies cause you need luck that the stresses are in the right place
and sometimes you've got good words but it's impossible to fit a good melody onto them

I tend to write the lyrics first and fit a melody onto the lyrics and hope it works out well also adding additional words to the lyric to make the melody work better, changing the lyrics slightly

or I write a few words and then have a melody in mind and write more words with that melody in mind

I mainly write the lyrics first cause I'm too lazy to do it the other way..

hope that was helpful

EE

[stefano65]

The best thing should be: you are strumming and words and melody goes from your brain and your hearth, naturally.
But this is only in a perfect world or with naturally born geniuses...  

Usually, in my ugly songs, i write first of all the lyrics and later i find the melody upon the lyrics. I think that is the easyest way, for me.
To do this, you have to have a very good vocaboulary in your brain, to find many words possibility with rymes ans so on. For me, it happens in my own language, the italian one.
I am not an expert, but it works, for me.

In english is difficult, because i don't live in a english speaker country, so my words are somehow "mechanic". I have to write easy words, with as strong as possible images because i am weak with english grammar.

[dtrain1235]

It works different ways for different people. I can only write lyrics but sometimes there is a melody that I hear in my head. It can be a reverse way for other songwriters.