Haha Nooms I'm not a lowlander... I live in St Helens ( Best rugby team in world :p) and was born in

Newton-le-Willows, which is the town where Rick Astley is from although he went to the proddy dog school 

A couple of my mates were in his band before he hit the billy big time.

I did live in The Hague for about 7-8 years though which is why I love the cheesheads Wish I was still living there still 

Thanks again for your advice. I will check out those times you mention and also everything everybody has mentioned and see if I can improve it some more. And no...

I don't sleep much at night. The night is quiet and I can only seem to zone in and have the peace I need to work

Mihkay - It's always the same problem. I don't know much about the technical side of things so am really struggling, which is why all this advice is priceless

and very much appreciated.

I learn so much being on here 

Unfortunately Liverpool (The greatest football team in the world  ) are playing City shortly so for once it's going to have to wait 

From listening to the 2nd version, if I were to mix this I would:

- There are some clashing notes between the bass and guitars, I dont know if this is due mistakes in the bass. They might be able to be edited out

- Timing. In some places the timing needs some real tightening up, esp between the bass and drums. Just getting everything totally in time will help a lot of other aspects of the mix.

-Bass. low pass filter it, pan it center. I hear a note that is resonating louder than the rest (very common in a bass part). I'd find the frequency and cut it. Then I might give a subtle boost to some very low-mids to give the bass a bit more fullness. Or alternatively, a bit of distortion on the bass can work wonders. Some heavy compression to even it out, but be careful with the attack/release settings so it doesnt pump

- Drums. They are mixed to low and the cymbals are way out to the far left/right while most of the other stuff is bang in the center. Seems unnaturally wide. If I were to really go wild, I'd edit the midi to make some of those rolls a bit more naturally and slightly vary the timing and strength of hits. But thats getting beyond the realm of mixing.
I'd run them through my tape machine or something similar to get some saturation/slight distortion to fill them out and bring down some harshness in the cymbals.

-Distorted guitar in the chorus. I don't think it sits to well with the more mellow vocal. I'd probably bring it down and pan it out of the center. Just use it to add some omph while being fairly transparent maybe?

-Rhythm guitar in verse is quite nice and I might make it more prominent. It also needs it's timing sorted out and it would help it sit much nicer. I might push the volume up a bit and pan it a bit, or double it and apply a subtle haas delay to make it really wide. I dont know if it is this guitar or another one, but there is often some high frequency pick type noises which Id eq out.

Lead guitar on verse - it can be a bit awkward at times, I'd definetly pan it out of the way of the lead vocal.

- vocal. Needs a bit more presence, Id give it a lift at high frequencies (7-10 KHz, maybe higher). The volume fluctuates a little, partly due to the reserved delivery. Maybe some more compression? Or set up a group channel with a harsh compressor on it and send the vocal to that, blend it in with the original vocal..
Subtle reverb aswell to give it mire depth
I think the mix as it is suffers from a lack of width. Good panning and EQ can add a lot more width. I would put a high pass filter on everything except the bass and kick drum, cutting off everything below at least 100 Hz. On stuff you are going to pan to the sides, try cutting even more - the ears are much better at placing the direction of high frequency stuff than low frequency, so putting a high pass filter on hard-panned stuff often gives the impression of more width.
Finally, I would play around with reverb on the vocals and guitars to improve the depth...

I dont know if it just my internet goofing up, but are there some pops in the song?

Oh my God Ramshackles! I might, tomorrow, when my eyes will open properly, be able to digest all that haha

Well this is the third night of mixing and I think I am going to die 

I took on what everybody said again and did a lot of things I could remember.

I added some meat to the drums and raised the volume a touch.

I also took some low end off the bass and pushed that up in the mix too.

I took some low end off the vocals too and brought them louder into the mix.

I panned the distorted guitar hard left and right on two separate channels and lowered them slightly.

No wonder everyone was saying something just doesn't sound right! 

What happened was this: When I did this song with the band, they complained about the quick change from bridge to chorus.

So I added two extra bars onto the bridge. The band is no more and I wanted it back how it was originally.

In that last mix that I put up, the timing was out in so many places, I can't believe I didn't hear it last night.

SO.... Here's the latest and last I hope. Please say this ones ok? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn80uIQj7W0

Live in St Helens and born in Newton-le-Willows eh? Well, even though I'm from Wigan I still have to say your team plays the wrong code of rugby! And I've written a few lyrics in the cafe at Trebaron garden centre at Newton! What a small world. (And I spent a week in The Hague in 1992.)

There is a huge improvement in the production of the song and I think you can go on working on it for days and days and end up going round in circles; you improve the bass and that affects the vocals, so you sort out the vocals and that affects the guitars so you sort the guitars out and that affects the bass etc etc etc. I don't think you'll develop your skills working on the same song for weeks; sometimes you have to accept that you're at a plateau in your learning curve and that you'll learn more by moving on to a new song.

For me, at this stage, the only issue I'd have with 'You' is a strange increase in volume at 0.39, 1.19 and 2.27. It sounds to me like there are other voices and or an increase in reverb coming in. A first listen through my ears it sounded like the volume was uneven, but after so many nights do you want to hear me say that?

What you have avoided is distortion. There's no peaking because of levels being too high or similar frequencies clashing. It sounds like a complicated mix of instruments so you're making it hard for yourself learning on something like this. But it seems to be working.

And you'll be delighted to know that the Six Nations starts again next month...

Chris

Wake me up when it's finished mate 

No I totally agree. I decided to move on for a bit too and get back to it.

I have other numerous things on the go that are demanding my attention so I will come back to this thread

later and check out all the things you and Ramshackles point oit.

I burned myself a copy to play in the car and so many things became immediatley obvious, BUT I do need a

break from it

Cheers again for pointing these things out. I will learn from it

The verses are great (Babybird smarmy-esque), but the chorus needs re-written I think to capitalize on the shift in tone in the lyric. The melody idea in the chorus is fine but it doesn't jump out at me the way the song thinks it does. I'm not sure this needed shift in dynamic to the chore scan happen in the production stage...

Ha Schavuitje,

love to hear that again, great and weird sound
good song!

and: scrolled down right away, to see the missus

and tried to listen to the new version on Youtube after that

but it was removed from you tube...was it a for adults only version 

 Hey Schauvitje, this is a good fun song reminds me a little of "Right said Fred". For me the drums don`t seem to fit. I would scale it back to a triplet feel (0ne and a, as opposed to the One e and a, stuff that is going on at the moment) give it a bit of swing which is the feel of the guitar. And none of the really fast drum machine rolls I`m sorry I have never found them convincing, why not use a guitar fill instead. There are swing and groove functions on some programs which can help get rid of that metronomic timing. Give it a shot, I think this song will come alive with a bit of laid back swing.
 Having said that I think we`re all battling the same problem here, the lack of a proffessional engineer. I know I`ll get all my levels set to where I want them and then when I mix down something different happens and then when I go to mp3 something different happens again. I end up just making do with what I`ve got. The solution become frivolously rich and hire the guy with the proffesional gear and know how. Good luck with that, I`ll send you a check when it happens for me if you get there first my adress is ......
 All the best fellow musician.     

Not the only solution 
Record record record, learn learn learn

I am certain close-to-pro results can be had from a fairly simple home setup Its just a case of being obsessive.

Every new post of this song is an improvement in how it sounds. I think you can still take it a bit further with mixing (see previous post ), but really I think the biggest hurdle between what you've got and a pro pro sound at this stage is the tracking

few clicks in this. and does sound a bit muddy with the hook not quite sittin right either. couple bits soundin off key. sorry to leave negative feedback but its honest and trying to be constructive. drums need to bang more too. vocals sound as if you didnt want the person in the next room to hear you when you were recording it. needs more flair and energy i reckon. as i say sorry for the negatives, hopefully its helpful-am new here and dont wanna offend people but i want honest feedback on my own stuff and thats what i'm gonna give. havent found anything i'd listen to again yet..

heres my first post if youve got any time to check it back http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/song-reviews/yeah-yeah-its-a-no-no/

This is such a good song. I'm groovin' along to it.   The http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn80uIQj7W0 version.
Just needs some brightness to the mix and a few tweeks.
As always on this forum....the better the song the harsher the crit...!  

Don't ask me exactly how because I'm still working on production myself.

But

1. Bass boomy .Not always but enough to be intrusive.
2. Top end missing?
3. Drum breaks are too fussy occasionally.
but
1. bass part is great. Deserves recognition.
2. Guitar is great.
3. vocal is groovy.

Damn this is a great song.  It deserves whatever can do to help make it the best it can be.
If there is anything I can do let me know... It's a gem!  

My vote for the opening track on the upcoming(?) UK Songwriters CD!  

I think this is a good song but there are things that bug me about it.

1. The drums are distracting- especially the double bass drum beat that pokes out occasionally - unsupported by a note on the bass.
The fills are too much - although there is something I like about the way they are - it needs a bit more restraint to stop it taking attention away from the actual song.

2. Sometimes I don't think the chords or bass line are right for the note that's being sung.

I agree that there is something reminiscent of Robyn Hitchcock about it (and I'm a big fan of his). I think it's a case of getting the balance right between things that should be left a little naive and whimsical, and things that actually get in the way of really hearing the song itself properly.

Just listened to the new version. Drums and bass much better. Still some timing issues. Heres how I would handle them:

Put the bass and key rhythmic elements of the drums (kick and snare usually) next to each other in your Daw and zoom in so you can see the individual hits and bass plucks. Start lining them up (the bass and the drums) by making cuts and nudging the segments forwards or backwards.

The vocals are a bit less clear in this version. I think re-tracking the vocals could help here. You've given a very soft delivery and the song would be suited to a more balls-out delivery. Record them again at the top of your lungs

It is a nice song though

Wow, I'm really glad that so many people have taken the time to really be helpful

with this song.

I really do like this one and I inted to keep revisiting this thread to properly take on board all

the brilliantly constructive feedback.

I think I know were the clashing notes are between the vocals and the bass and I intend to fix that.

It just needs a very slight adjustment in the bassline.

I agree about the drums. I think I prefer this almost latin beat to a swing but they do get too busy and distracting at times. I'm not a drummer

so I find it hard to get the balance right. I think I can hear where it needs tweaking though so I'll have a go at that too.

I'll read yours too Ram for all that technical stuff