[IrishGuy]

Okay so basically I am in the process of writing band songs before I move to the city and start a band. I want it to be a sort of post-rock band with some indie influence.

Would anyone be able to give me a full run-through on how to analyse different aspects of different bands to increase my knowledge and inventory of things I can write?
I find the idea of sitting down with a notepad and actually analysing music like a history class really intimidating and probably very time consuming.

Like for example if I wanted to be able to write catchy fun unusual guitar bits like Bombay Bicycle Club blended with my other influences, would I have to analyse every guitar detail of their songs?

One idea I had was just learning all the songs that influence me on guitar but I'm not sure if that would work or not! Would it? Would I somehow subconsciously remember those weird chords/riffs and be able to incorporate them?

I also want to learn to write lovely sounding vocal lines and lyrics like Foals and in your face Arctic Monkeys lyrics also. What's the best way to analyse these lyrics and learn to write in a similar style?

Finally, for the instrumental section for the band I'm want it very big like Foals' "Providence" or "Two Steps Twice" or a lot of And So I Watch You From Afar's music. Plenty of delay in the guitars etc. The same goes for this, how do I analyse the structures and melodies and instrumental section of bands like the above and incorporate them successfully?

I realise this is a really complicated question as it's not just writing rock songs. There's a slight difference.
All the same I really hope someone gets around to answering this as I want to have some material ready in the coming months that will convince people to join my band!

Thank you.

[seriousfun]

If this is the style of music you have been listening to mostly, and it is the type of music you enjoy most then chances are you will write in a similar way. For example, I am stuck in a 60's to 70's time warp as that is the period of music I grew up with and no matter what I aim for my music always turns out that way. Its where my roots are and its where my vast mental database of music ideas is.

If you arnt listening to the styles you want to write, then start right now.

Writing good music is not something that happens overnight unless you are an exceptionally talented person, so you will deffinately be in for a long haul. Be prepared to write dozens of songs to get a handful of usable ones. This forum is a great place to experiment with what you do as you can get valuable feedback and assistance to keep you on track.

You havnt mentioned what instruments you play, but keep in the back of your mind that when you form your band you will be bringing in other people with varied skills and varied styles so that will most likely also colour the songs that you have written strongly. As songs you write are lyricaly in the ball park and use the right melody lines the band should be able to put virtually any spin on it you desire.

To align yourself with other artists sounds you need to ensure that you use the same instruments that they use and ensure that these instruments are producing a similar sound. Try and use the similar types of beats and rhythmic patterns. These things are quite easy to do and they will fast track your sound. You could begin by shadow writing from some of their chord progressions until you are confident that you are on the right track. By shadow writing I mean taking their chord progressions, and changing the meldoy, phrasing and rhythym and lyrics thereby giving you your own song without infringing any copywrite. When i shadow write i normally swap around a chord or two and that helps to force me into a different melody.

Hope that helps

Allan.

[DevyE]

Hi Irishguy

You've posted a few threads pleading for assistance on writing songs etc and have been given some very good advice which hopefully you've taken on board. On one thread you said that you have "100+ different phrases for lyrics that sound good and 100+ little riff ideas" so maybe it would be better
(if you have not done so already) posting some demos in the 'works in progress' section or some lyrics so others can offer more tangible assistance.


Have you now enrolled in BIMM (A college for musicians) as you mentioned on another thread because I'm sure they will assist although currently I think you may struggle to get people to join your band but if you're lucky they may join a band with you 

All the best.

[Boydie]

I think ALLAN has nailed the main points

Here is how I would approach it....

GROOVE / VIBE

My first priority when writing a song is getting the "groove" right

To me this is matching the "rhythms" used in the style I want to write

In your case you should listen to whether the band's you reference use a straight "4 to the floor" pattern, do they use a strong "backbeat" (emphasis on the 2 & 4), is there a "swing" to the drums etc.

When you have the drum pattern nailed you need to try to match the "sounds" - are they using "real drums" and if so there are lots of flavours of real drums - lively drums, rock drums, big sounding, tight sounding etc.

Are they using any electronic drums? - even live sounding bands use elements of electronic drums, especially for the snare - eg claps or other sound fx

Is there any percussion being used? Listen really carefully as an increase in "energy" in the song may be the addition of a really subtle percussion element that you wouldn't normally hear if you weren't listening closely

Once you nail the rhythm you can then listen to how the bass guitar works - is it playing rhythmic root notes to emphasise a groove or is it playing its own bass line

Once you get the drums and bass sounding right you will be most of the way there IMHO

If you want a shortcut you can buy loops and construction kits in most genres so why not invest in one that covered the band's you have mentioned - this would get you up and running in no time as someone else has already done this groundwork to develop a range of grooves and sounds to fit the style that you are free to use


STRUCTURE

This is really important - identify the common structures in the songs you are wanting to emulate - eg verse-prechorus-chorus-verse etc.

Where do the guitar riffs appear?


OTHER ELEMENTS

I would then listen through the track with your notepad and write down any "stand out" parts

Eg you have mentioned the quirky guitar riffs

I would suggest learning these first (the chords and tabs will likely be online somewhere if you don't want to work it out by ear)

This is then where some theory comes in helpful as you can then start to work out what scales and shapes keep cropping up - eg are the riffs using major/minor scales, is it easier to look at the using a Pentatonic scale with extra notes being used to provide the quirkiness (which would be my guess for this style)


MELODY / LYRICS

Once you have your basic song you can look at melody and lyrics

I would find the lyrics of the songs online and look for common themes and phrases


It is a daunting task but break it down into these steps and I think you will quickly identify what makes them tick

[JonnyD]

A lot of good points have been made already, here are some suggestions:

If you haven't already, get some basic music theory nailed down. Just simple things like being able to recognise a subtle key change, a scale or particular harmony. If you're listening to a song and hear something slightly unusual, try googling it to find out, musically, what was actually going on in that bit. There's a surprising amount of information available on this, I'd recommend songfacts.com.

A good writer needs to read a lot, so a good songwriter needs to listen to lots of music. Try to expand your musical horizons to styles you maybe haven't looked at before. You don't have to do a hardcore analysis on each style, just understand the basic gist of the music (i.e. time signature, harmonies, chords). Experiment with folk, blues, classical, jazz, techno - anything really, the world is your lobster. If you want a good place to start, look up the influences of the bands you like and listen to them, then listen to their influences and so on. A lot of the stuff, I believe, can be picked up intuitively.

[hardtwistmusic]

For ME.... (and only me - unless YOU decide this applies to you). 

That sounds overcomplicated. 

Just write the best songs you can, and then worry about which songs to put together on an album. 

I can't imagine any song that I wrote would "fail to suffer" if I analyzed it and tried to fit it into a formula or whatever before I wrote it.  I just can't imagine any great artist "analyzing" the works of others and deciding what form or style to follow on a masterpiece. 

Pablo Casals was asked, "Is it hard to paint a masterpiece." 

"No," he answered.  "It's either easy or it's impossible." 

I suspect you are overthinking this.  But Again... that's just me. 

[adamfarr]

It's actually a really good question. Learning songs is great and really influences your later writing - but we tend to learn top line and chords (especially guitarists) and not pay attention to the other elements that Boydie sets out (personally I might put the bass lower down and the melody higher up the list but that's also quite personal).

When I write I usually find that the song calls out for a certain feel, tempo etc but I couldn't always say why. So 1000s of hours of listening to music you like is a great start but analysing - really listening to the different elements - can take out the trial and error and widen your vocabulary to prevent getting stuck in ruts and put you in charge.

[DevyE]

I don't think this is a good question and only because of the attention to detail that it provides, personally I think someone is pulling someone's leg for their own entertainment. If someone can ask this long winded question I don't believe they wouldn't or couldn't have already listened intently to (because they enjoy), studied and learnt some of the songs from the artists mentioned. If they hadn't and ask this question then they are either lazy or lazy and naïve.

And if they believe "one idea I had was just learning all the songs that influence me on guitar" is not a good idea then maybe they should take up gardening without planting flowers or knitting without wool

[Annoying Twit]

I think that learning to analyse songs is a good thing to do, as it suggests a whole lot of tools that other people have used successfully.

For people of a certain age (and young people too, though they're less likely to know the songs) reading through Allan Pollock's analysis of Beatles songs will show examples of analyses of songs. The same techniques, once understood, can then be used to analyse the songs of other artists. http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-notes_on.shtml

IMHO Jai Josef's book "Writing Music for Hit Songs" (better than the title suggests, IMHO) is a good source for the music theory that would allow musical analysis of songs.