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Latency

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Jamie

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« on: April 28, 2015, 07:09:42 PM »
Hi all, latency is a word that I vaguely recognise, so I might be wrong in my assumption, but i think I've got it! I've been working with Logic Pro x for a few weeks now and my second significant recording was about 75% complete when I decided to change the lyrics of the song?I re-recorded the vocals,and suddenly I have (I think) latency! I've tried to record it several times taking away any possible issues and also removing the mastering 'plug ins' but it's still there! I have recorded 4-5 different songs and ideas, is this a cumulative issue or is it something I've done with this particular song? Help! PS it also seemed to have affected a delay guitar track on the the same song!?

Cheers
Jamie

Neil C

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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 08:11:25 PM »
Hmm, and there will be others who know more than I but what you hear and what you record are 'delayed' for want of a better way of describing things. The latency/timing issue normally happens when something has changed with the software/drivers? Did you upgrade something between the initial then later recording? If the config has changed I'd revert to previous and see if you have the same issue.
Good luck.
 :)
Neil
songwriter of no repute..

Boydie

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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 09:01:33 PM »
Take a deep breath - I am sure we can sort this out for you...

There are generally 3 main things that can cause "latency" (a noticeable delay between playing a note and hearing it) 

In order of likelihood...

1 - Your "buffer" settings in your audio interface

The most common cause of latency or audio issues (such as pops & clicks or "audio drop outs" where the system just gives up the ghost completely!) is an incorrect "buffer size", which is set in your audio interface control panel (often accessed from within your DAW)

The "buffer" does exactly what it says on the tin - it takes some strain off of the processor by slowing down the flow of info to the processor, which increases performance but can result in  delays in the audio getting in to the computer, processed and coming out through the speakers/headphones (latency)

The "buffer size" is measured in "samples"

A low buffer size will give you a low latency (ie you will hear what you play or sing without a delay) - however, the lower the buffer size the more strain it puts on your system (processor etc.)

It is therefore a balancing act between low latency (low buffer setting) and PC performance (high buffer setting) to reduce latency and prevent pops, clicks, crackles and drop outs


When you are recording you are aiming to have as little latency as possible - ie below 12ms

This means having as low a buffer size as possible (I would recommend trying 128, 160, 192 or 256 to see how you get on)

So in theory it is possible for latency to increase as the project gets bigger as you will put more strain on your PC and therefore may need a high buffer setting, which will increase latency

If you struggle to get to acceptable levels then you can try taking some of the strain off your processor - eg disable effects, "freeze" synths - whilst you record, although nowadays using a good PC (or Mac ) and a good audio interface with good drivers (eg ASIO drivers) should be fine

When you have finished your recording latency doesn't matter any more because if the audio is delayed due to a high buffer then EVERYTHING gets delayed by the same amount and will sound fine

I would therefore recommend cranking up your buffer setting to 1024 (or higher) to take the strain off of your system when you "produce" or mix - and start adding more CPU hungry effects and plugins


2 - "Look Ahead" FX & Plugins

There are some situations where certain plugins can add latency to a project even if your buffers are fine

These plugins often use "look ahead" technology that introduces latency if you record into your DAW while these are running - "mastering" plugins are often a culprit but they could be lurking anywhere

If you are able to easily disable all plugins then this is worth trying


This is why it can be useful to distinguish between a "tracking session" - ie minimal plugins and low buffer settings - to do all of your recording

and

"mixing sessions" - ie crank up the buffer settings and start adding FX and plugins

The lines do get blurred as modern systems can quite happily run along with low buffer settings, low latency AND handle lots of plugins


3 - Delay Bus

This one caught me out once - I had inadvertently sent all my tracks to a DELAY bus where I was only hearing the 100% wet signal (which was obviously delayed slightly), which exhibited EXACTLY the same symptoms as high latency

It drove me mad for a while but keeping a cool head and taking a logical approach often saves the day!!!



There are other causes but my money would be on one of these (probably 1 or 2)

What drivers are you using and what are the buffer sizes?
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Bernd

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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2015, 07:08:38 AM »
My PC runs with Microsoft Windows XP (still!). As with Windows the latency effect is considerably larger than with Mac OS. The main reason are poor drivers. That's why I use asio4all. You still need to adjust the buffers (as was described).

The recording software should compensate the effect - at least Cubase does this - so there is NO cumulative effect. The 'charts' (grahically displayed recordings) should be fine, too.

I actually still have a 0,13 sec delay when I use Microsoft Midi as a metronome. But I simply live with that. You can correct such issues - namely if you mix audio with Midi as I do - by 'glueing' the tracks in question together, if they have been recorded as separate parts, and then simply cut off the delay time at the start of the track. In my case that is 0,13 secs when I have played the guitar and sung to the - delayed - metronome; after cutting off the delay time all Midi and audio tracks are in sync - what's left are my own timing issues ;-)

Good luck,
Bernd

Bernd
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Boydie

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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2015, 08:18:09 AM »
Asio4all should be seen as a "last resort" as it is often a "cheat" to get below par audio interfaces (eg the onboard sound card) to work with "professional" software

It is like forcing a good amateur footballer into a Premier team - they may do "ok" but will not perform as well as a proper footballer

Wherever possible try to find "proper" ASIO drivers from the manufacturer of your audio interface

If they are not available it would imply that your audio interface is not designed for low latency ("professional") recording

If this is the case I think you would be much better off getting a cheap(er) audio interface from the likes of FOCUSRITE that will give you an all 'round better experience
To check out my music please visit:

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Jamie

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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2015, 08:44:43 AM »
Hi guys, thanks for your prompt responses. I haven't yet had a chance to study/ implement any of your suggestions, but hope to get to it later today or tomorrow. FYI I am running on a brand new apple 27inch ,pro logic x, with no changes to any drivers and a focusrite Scarlett 212.
Cheers
Jamie