New style of writing?

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IrishGuy

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« on: December 31, 2014, 02:38:50 AM »
I just listened to It's Alright, Ma by Bob Dylan and on lyric website some people comment huge paragraphs analysing each line and saying things like;

"The use of the word "ma" could possibly be a symbol for comfort as Dylan is uncomfortable with what he's writing in the verses" etc.

More comments would speak about ANOTHER reason the word "ma" is used. ("superiority symbol?...")

This makes me wonder:

Did Bob Dylan really sit down and continuously work on this and other songs with that much poetic detail and meaning?

I find it hard to believe.

"Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying"

That verse could be about ANYTHING.

Great verse.

Although I feel I could never write something that "poetic" if I was trying my hardest to get a set message across.

This is because I'd get annoyed that it wasn't good enough or it wasn't portraying the message correctly.

This leads me to believe that great songs like this were written by:

 Writing crazy ridiculous phrases and ideas FIRST. "Darkness at the break of noon" etc.

Then have these phrases create a meaning around them rather than trying to create phrases and ideas FOR a set message.

1. Get phrases from the brain (anything that pops into your head) fading, mountains, sunset, boots.

2. Chisel them and clean them up a bit

3. Start thinking of what they could be metaphors for. "His boots hit the floor as the sunset fades" etc.

4. Identify a meaning for the song. (+continuously writing phrases.)

5.Put them together and think of a structure and so on.

That seems like that'd be a much more free way of writing but maybe I'm just crazy.

What do you's think?





Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2014, 11:10:33 AM »
I completely agree

English lessons at school analysing poems (every line, word, etc.) looking at hidden meaning etc. used to drive me bonkers

It was like the final clue on 321 (now there's a reference only members over a certain age will get!)
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Dogmax

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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2014, 06:56:29 PM »
Dylan wrote that song in the early sixties at a time when the civil rights movement in America was growing larger with every call and that was where his thoughts for all of his greatest protest songs came from, he was living with what was going on in America 24/7 and the World and that as a songwriter was probably all he could think about and I'm almost certain he didn't write that song in a day but thanks to the civil rights movement he found his audience and the Freedom to write in such a poetic style, as a songwriter he grew with what was going on around him even after a few years when he went from acoustic guitar to electric he might have lost many fans during that time but thankfully he never lost his freedom in his thoughts to write what he really wanted to write about also i would say he didn't write according to the rules, here a link to a article about him that maybe you might find interesting.

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/the-politics-of-bob-dylan/


I have to say one thing i don't like in your post is this  (Although I feel I could never write something that "poetic" if I was trying my hardest to get a set message across.

This is because I'd get annoyed that it wasn't good enough or it wasn't portraying the message correctly)  my advice is totally ignore those thoughts.

Sometime when we write lyrics we don't write them until we read back what we've already written take for example if you want to write a protest song then that means you already have thoughts of what you want to write about, the same can apply to any subject you want to write about and as i said, sometime when we write lyrics we don't write them until we read back what we've already written.

Happy New Year to You and All.

JoeHerb

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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 11:38:05 AM »
Tips on Writing...

Write every day.
Be authentic. Be true. Use your own voice.
Be specific
Read your work out loud.
Understand the terms “Beat,” “free verse,” and “modern poetry.”
Experiment with poetic forms & meter.
Check your spelling, grammar & punctuation.
Let it stew a while.

[edit by Tone]
Link removed, no stealth links please
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 05:14:47 PM by tone »

diademgrove

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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2015, 04:36:04 PM »
Hi IrishGuy,

the first verse is about the crucifixion of Christ, the power of God and how you can be saved. As is the rest of the song.

To answer your question Dylan usually starts with the idea of what he wants to say and then finds the words and phrases with which to get his message across. The fact that it may not be obvious to anybody but himself doesn't seem to bother him.

The reason he's so successful and his imitators aren't is because he always started with your point 4.

Of course, this is only my opinion.

Keith

shadowfax

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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 06:47:31 AM »
I once watched an interview with Dylan where he said  ''the words are there because they rhymed''
he was adamant they did not mean anything in particular..
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 07:40:32 AM by shadowfax »
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benjo

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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 06:10:11 PM »

 hey

 yeah I agree I think those words are there because they rhyme
 but at the same time to some one who doesn't do poetry / song writing
 I understand why you would look a lot deeper than this is
 I also think the more famous an artist gets the more deep people think they write
 simplicity is the key in my opinion but also familiarity

    great topic we all have opinions on this topic, this is mine