[Arkwright]

Anyway I've come up with some music for this. It's suitably melancholic in a minor key but hopefully you won't want to slit your wrists after hearing it.

If you're interested I'll get in touch after I've managed to do a rough recording?
I realise you haven't submitted it for a collaboration but why not?

Perhaps we could rustle up somebody to do an appropriate vocal etc etc.

I like the lyric...just needs a bit of honing I think...

Hey Cramer, many thanks for your input into these slightly controversial lyrics.

You will see in my post above, I have addressed some of the issues that have been brought up, so I won't repeat myself.

I haven't put this in collaborations as Neil C messaged me early on asking if he could have a crack at creating some music.

I certainly don't have a problem with anyone else having a go, but I wouldn't want Neil to feel offended in any way if it was being worked on by multiple people. I'm not really sure what the etiquette is in this situation.

Cheers...

[Arkwright]

Hi Arkwright

Well, you've waded into some deep murky waters here..
I think it's a well written piece even if it's limited to a few genres (that support dark subject matter) For me there is a subtle "tense" issue. The verses read like "when this happens", then the chorus answers with "I do this". But, you can commit suicide only once so I don't understand how the sequence can be repeated? Maybe he can "plan" to do something in the earlier choruses, then do it in the end? And while I'm whining, I also wasn't keen on "heartbreak motel". It's a tough subject to write about so kudos for taking a run at it - I'll never be that brave!

Paul

Hey Paul thanks for your comments, always appreciated...

I think I get what you mean about about the finality of the chorus and then repeating the act a second time, but in my head this wasn't about a single protagonist and more about the different feelings many people have that could (but in most cases doesn't) lead them to taking their own life.

I'm going to edit the lyrics into the third person perspective shortly as I'd mentioned I would do in an earlier post. I'm not sure it will make much difference to the point you make but maybe it will.

I've also changed the last line of the chorus as it's been mentioned a couple of times, though I'm not entirely happy with the change I've made, so any suggestions would be welcome.

[lillypilly]

"Last Chance Motel"

[Arkwright]

Hey Lillypilly, thanks for the suggestion...

I've tried "last chance motel' and quite like it. Unfortunately I've used the wood 'last' at the end of the previous line and not sure it works for that reason.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Oh yes....I clearly missed that, didn't I ?

OK...Neil's bagged this one then...fair enough....I'll go back to sleep....

[Paulski]

Hi Arkwright

Well, you've waded into some deep murky waters here..
I think it's a well written piece even if it's limited to a few genres (that support dark subject matter) For me there is a subtle "tense" issue. The verses read like "when this happens", then the chorus answers with "I do this". But, you can commit suicide only once so I don't understand how the sequence can be repeated? Maybe he can "plan" to do something in the earlier choruses, then do it in the end? And while I'm whining, I also wasn't keen on "heartbreak motel". It's a tough subject to write about so kudos for taking a run at it - I'll never be that brave!

Paul

Hey Paul thanks for your comments, always appreciated...

I think I get what you mean about about the finality of the chorus and then repeating the act a second time, but in my head this wasn't about a single protagonist and more about the different feelings many people have that could (but in most cases doesn't) lead them to taking their own life.

I'm going to edit the lyrics into the third person perspective shortly as I'd mentioned I would do in an earlier post. I'm not sure it will make much difference to the point you make but maybe it will.

I've also changed the last line of the chorus as it's been mentioned a couple of times, though I'm not entirely happy with the change I've made, so any suggestions would be welcome.

That makes sense - like I said it's only a subtle thing with me and prob no-one else would notice or care. What about "life's run-down motel" or "sordid motel" if you want a near rhyme with world?

[hardtwistmusic]

Oh God...... don't take the lyrics down.  Look at the discussion about this important subject you have sparked.  

AND... as you say, the song isn't intended to be about a final result of suicide.  It's intended to be about the feelings of hopeessness that leads to it.  

THAT is an utterly and vitally important subject.  And it's incredibly difficult to capture the one without evoking the other.  

My suggestion would be to keep working the song (usually best done after setting it aside for awhile) and then work to provide readers/listeners some insight that lets us in on that intent.  

And.... fwiw... even though it doesn't imply suicide....  "Can't live if living is without you" is (like many love songs) frightfully dysfunctional in it's own right.  

Fixating on another person as "necessary to an extreme" is a staple of love songs, but in real life, it very often leads to tragedies.   In many songs AND movies, there is a fine, thin line between stalking and true love.  As a counselor, I'm sure you have seen that.

While I personally am biased against anything that can be perceived as "promoting suicide", I would NEVER wish to be an agent of censorship and prevent other people from communicating thoughts outside my own bias.  I would feel terrible if you were (even voluntarily) prevented from communicating your experiences because of my personal bias.    

Again.... I REALLY hope you do not take this lyric down.  It's a great lyric with just the one (unintended) mis-communication.  Fix it, don't remove it.    

Really, since our/your intent with every lyric is to "have an impact" this is probably one of the most effective lyrics ever posted here.  This is what writing is all about.  You have "provoked thought."    

[hardtwistmusic]

Sorry to hog up the discussion. 

Here is one suggestion for leading the listener away from a final result of suicide. 

CHORUS
I walk a fine line
Between love and hate
While destiny fights
To enrich my fate
With a tainted heart
I bid the world farewell
Checkin’ out one more time
From life’s last chance motel

The subtle change creates and communicates an ongoing fear and depression instead of a tragic "final solution."

There's probably a better wording available, but you can see the direction.  Hope that helps. 

[diademgrove]

Hi Arkwright,

I may be the only one but I like "heartbreak motel". I feel the image of "heartbreak hotel" strengthens your lyrics not weakens them. I see it as a musical metaphor and gives your words the added power of Elvis. I approach Springsteen's Promised Land in the same way. The optimism of Chuck Berry turned into 1980s despair.

One of the problems in writing lyrics is showing people what's inside your head. You must have had lots of experience of people pulling themselves back from that kind of despair. That experience allows you think of alternatives to suicide. The majority of us don't have that experience and take "I bid the world farewell" to mean suicide.

Given your explanation I'd consider adding a middle 8/bridge which explains how you come back from the brink. The Hollywood answer is a damsel in shining armour on a white stead. A better lyric could be based on the real life struggles you have seen.

You could alter the last chorus to read "I bid that world farewell". The song then finishes on an optimist note. If you follow this I'd write it in the first person, it'll have more power.

As ever if you disagree please ignore me.

Keith

 

[Arkwright]

Thanks once again to Hardtwist and Keith for your comments.

I won't take the lyrics down unless expressly asked to do so. I agree that debate is healthy and it's a subject I'm always happy to debate as it's such an integral part of my life.

The last two lines of the chorus appear to be one of the main areas of contention, as that's where the 'finality' is suggested.

If I changed the lines to something like:

"Checking IN one more time
To heartbreak/last chance hotel"

Would this suggest the protagonist has recognised the extent of their despair and they are seeking help?

I also like the idea of a middle eight but would need some thought as there is very rarely a knight in shining armour that can resolve the issues and it wouldn't be true to the reality of people in this situation. That said, I will give it done serious thought and might be able to squeeze in a message of hope.

[Arkwright]

OK, I've made some subtle changes to the last three lines of the second chorus that I think give a different message to the first chorus and in doing so, I think the outro is now a positive message suggesting they have overcome their demons and are now at peace with themselves and the world.

Would appreciate feedback on whether anyone else feels the changes achieve what I think they achieve..

[Vintage54]

        Hi,
          Interpretation is in the head of the beholder. Speaking personally, my thoughts were coming from the same head and direction of "Cramer" But people come from all kinds of directions when discussing the works of say, Dylan, Cohen and Nick Cave, to name just three. But that's art, and you take what you can get, long as you get something. Anyway, good to have you back. First post since the flood, and the "Ark" is already making waves.

                                    Vintage54

[diademgrove]

I feel the song loses some of its power as you move away from the heartbreak motel line.

I meant to post this earlier but football and work got in the way. I've sketched out a middle 8 which builds on the theme of suicide but provides a resolution whereby the singer carries on. Fell free to ignore my words or take whatever you feel will work.

Middle 8

I see my tears in the mirror
I see the bottle on the dresser
I feel the embrace of my mother
I feel the strength of my father
I hear the ticking of time
I hear laughter that isn't mine
I see sunbeams dance on the floor
I see my smile in the mirror

followed by the chorus. As you know I'd stick with the original formulation slightly amended.

Keith

[Wicked Deeds]

Hello Arkwright,

A good set of lyrics and very dark too. How strange that words find their way from pen to paper when they don't reflect a mood. my writing is pretty much a commentary of my life and feelings. We all write differently and I can see that you've shaped your lyrics rather well.

Paul

[Arkwright]

I feel the song loses some of its power as you move away from the heartbreak motel line.

I meant to post this earlier but football and work got in the way. I've sketched out a middle 8 which builds on the theme of suicide but provides a resolution whereby the singer carries on. Fell free to ignore my words or take whatever you feel will work.

Middle 8

I see my tears in the mirror
I see the bottle on the dresser
I feel the embrace of my mother
I feel the strength of my father
I hear the ticking of time
I hear laughter that isn't mine
I see sunbeams dance on the floor
I see my smile in the mirror

Hey Keith, thanks for your suggestions. As the 'Heartbreak Motel' line now seems equally divided on opinion, I've decided to go with it as it was my original idea.

I don't dislike your middle 8, in fact I think it's excellent. Unfortunately it doesn't in this instance reflect the reality of the thoughts and feelings that I listen to on a regular basis. The young people I work with certainly don't feel the embrace of their mother or the strength of their father. The last four lines may have some mileage and I might have a play with them if that's ok.