[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

This is doing my head in so I would appreciate any ideas from you experts.

I have a nice Yamaha LL11-E  http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/guitars-basses/ac-guitars/l/ll11e/

I bought it 2nd hand without even being aware that it was an electro-acoustic (I'm thick like that) and didn't get the external pre-amp with which it was originally sold.

I can plug straight into the PC and get a sound but it isn't great, especially for strums.

So, I recently bought a Focusrite Scarlett Solo - primarily for vocals, but I thought it would also be ok for the git.  OK for mic but next to no volume on the guitar even at full revs - mainly a lot of noise.....

Figuring, without really knowing what I was doing, that maybe I needed a pre-amp I bought a Behringer AdI 21  http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/ADI21.aspx....again little guitar sound and lots of noise.

Thèse things seem to work for others so I've read, so could there perhaps be an issue with the internal gizmo in my guitar or what?

I know I could mic it up to record but would still like to know what the hell is going on.

Anybody got any knowledge about this please?

[seriousfun]

The focusrite has builtin pre amps for the mic and the instrument ( line level ) Direct input.

Connect the guitar to the instrument input on the solo using a good quality lead. I note on their website that there is a small switch saying instrument/line I am unsure which of these should be used so you may have to try both. Make sure that you have a fresh battery in your guitar otherwise the sound level will be very low and noisy. Now turn the guitar up to about three quarters for a starter. You should see some action on the indicator on the  solo ( a beleive it is a ring of colour which should go green or red if the leve is too high ) there is a dial on the solo which you can turn up to increase the level. Once you have some indicators showing results here you should find that you will have a good level for your computer.

You will always get better results by micing up your guitar and recording that way. Experiment with the mic directed to varying places on tje guitar. The sound hole is normally quite boomy and should be avoided, the neck where it attatches to the body is normally a good place to start. It could also be interesting to use both the line input and the mic at the same time, with each recorded on its own seperate track. This will give two vary different sounds and you play with blending them by altering their volumes in you daw and panning them. All great fun.

Hope this is of some help.

Allan.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Hi Allan

Thanks for replying so fully.

Now I didn't even know that the guitar had a battery...is that right?  It has an internal piezo-electric pickup with built in mic apparently - needs an external pre-amp. i thought it was the pre-amp that needed the battery and that the piezo was passive (i just read that!)

Yes, I thought that the focusrite pre-amps were going to do the job but the sound is almost non-existent.

Looks like I'll be miking it then. I've read that this is the way to go but would still like to know why I can't get a sound through a cable.

[Boydie]

+1 to every single word Allan said - everything is spot on

I think you are right about the guitar pickups not needing a battery as the pre-amp is "taking the strain"

I am not sure why you are not getting a good signal though?

To eliminate the pre-amp as the issue can you try plugging the guitar straight into the Focusrite

As Allan has pointed out you may need to crank up the pre-amp on the FOCUSRITE to get the "green ring" and experiment with the "inst/line" switch

If this still gives you an issue then I would try a different cable first

If there is still the same problem then I would try plugging the guitar into something else (an amp, stereo system etc.) to see if you get the same problems (try with and without the external pre-amp)

If you still get the same problem then it points to the guitar pickups (loose wire, bad connection etc..)

It should be a simple fix if this is the case - do you have any guitar techs near by?

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Hi Boydie

I can record direct to the PC (not a fantastic reproduction though) so that would suggest that the pickup and cables are functioning ok.

I've tried the Focusrite on its own, with the ADi-21 etc etc all sorts of combinations with hardly anything registering. I don't even get the green ring on the Focusrite...I know that is functioning because it works OK with a mic. I've tried the external pickup connected to the Focusrite with quarter inch jack into instrument and line in and also with a mic-type cable between the two....nada.

I've tried different cables.

I'm wondering if attaching a cable round my neck and dangling from a beam in the barn might solve the issue.

[Mystic Dreamer]

Looks like I'll be miking it then. I've read that this is the way to go but would still like to know why I can't get a sound through a cable.

I can't help with your original problem.  But in terms of microphones I can offer the experience I've had.  Which isn't much, but it still might be helpful.

To begin with I found that miking using a dynamic mike is extremely directional.  I found that I almost had to point the guitar hole at the mike to get a really full sound, and any deviation from that position would affect the volume and quality quite dramatically.

So I moved up to a studio condenser mic.  I bought a Behringher C-1.  Which is a really nice mic for the price of only about $50 US.  But it also requires a 48 volt phantom power supply which was not a problem for me since I already have a Behringher mixer that supplies this phantom power.

This is the Behringer C-1

It's a really nice mic for the price.   And it picks up really nice overtones and doesn't matter where you point the guitar or move the guitar.  It maintains a rich constant volume.

Now I have no experience with the following, but Behringer has since come out with the C-1U which appears to be the same mic but it just runs off a computer USB.  No phantom 48 volts required.

This is the Behringer C-1U

If this mic sounds as good as the original C-1 it is a super great mic for the price.

So anyway, I just thought I'd post this for whatever it's worth.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Thanks Mystic....i've read that the Behringer mic isn't bad for the price - and the price is a big issue for me!

I'll see how I get on with the mic I've got and......oh God not another expense...my wife's gonna kill me!

[seriousfun]

Please post pic of you dangling from a cable in the barn.

Priceless lol.

[tone]

Coincidentally, I have this page open on another tab today http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr10/articles/acguitar.htm useful perhaps? Mic-wise, I'm thinking of going for the Rode M3 http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov07/articles/rodem3.htm

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Thanks for the links Tone.

I read the first one and decided to save it to favourites....found that I'd already got it. At least I read it this time!

So I have had a go using my dynamic mic at the point where the neck meets the body and the mic pointing up slightly. It was ok but not perfect. Haven't done much experimenting yet...just wanted to lay down a guitar track to help with the song I'm building.

That Rode mic seems a pretty good job at a fairly good price, though i don't know if my wife will feel quite the same way about it......

Still looking for any ideas about recording direct though.....I just want to be able to do it, and I'm not necessarily looking for a good, clean acoustic guitar sound....just a guitar sound that I can experiment with using some of these amp simulation things.

I can do it direct into the pc mic socket but that is a bit 'noisy' even for me.

Thanks for any help folks.

[jamieF]

Have you thought about replacing the pickup with one more suited to your needs? A fairly cheap and easy modification if its an under-the-saddle type. Or, you could look for a used Yamaha APX preamp, one of those would also work.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Yes Jamie this has occurred to me...or trying to get hold of the original unit that went with the guitar.

I just want to know why my set-up doesn't work! I hate spending money fruitlessly!

Anyway thanks for the interest.