[Alan Starkie]

Spent last couple of days pitching to and searching out new (to me) publishers.

Go to MPAONLINE for a good start to assembling a list of possible publishers.

Set aside some time though. It's not a five minute job.

[Jess]

May I ask some beginner questions about this strange thing called PUBLISHING. Like what to you pitch? Lyrics, songs, fully produced songs, etc? And do you pitch yourself as an artist or a songwriter or does it depend on what you want to get out of it? And what do publishers actually do?

[S.T.C]

Their a fickle bunch,that's for sure.You pitch well recorded songs!. and if they like them enough, they will promote them for 50% of what the song can make financially ,they also help collect royalties.

If they like your material enough, the bigger ones could even employ you to write.

If you want tocontact artist directly, use Twitter..cautiously!

[Sing4me88]

I used to take a really really dim view of the whole publishing set up, basically dismissing the whole thing as leeches sucking off the talent and hardwork of others but as I grasp a more mature understanding of the ins and outs and workings of 'the industry' I've come to accept it as just another somewhat unpalatable reality of how an incredibly fruitful industry works. Kinda like footballers and actors agents etc- the publisher  may not have much input into the product but they are key to promoting it, getting a cut etc. Sure wouldn't it be great if we could all knock out a demo and give Miley Cyrus a buzz on Twitter but it doesn't work that way. Ok you may be able to contact them directly via Twitter to  a DEGREE but how many similar tweets do you reckon major artists get and how many of them actually deal with the day to day running of fan tweets on their twitter- other than to post a selfie or tweet some crap about loving Breaking Bad etc?

Publishers are in a position to make a lot of money fo'sure but that's because they are also integral in helping writers make a lot of money. After all a potential hit remains worthless as a potential hit until it graces the ears of someone with the capacity to make it an actual hit.

Also through one collab I've become increasingly aware of the benefit and importance of having a contact at a particular publisher or label or even a contact at a huge established team of writers/producers. No guarantee your material will get cut but it sure makes getting it heard by the 'right people'a hell of a lot easier.

[S.T.C]

"Sure wouldn't it be great if we could all knock out a demo and give Miley Cyrus a buzz on Twitter but it doesn't work that way. Ok you may be able to contact them directly via Twitter to  a DEGREE but how many similar tweets do you reckon major artists get and how many of them actually deal with the day to day running of fan tweets on their twitter- other than to post a selfie or tweet some crap about loving Breaking Bad etc?"

Exactly, your not going to get that near to major artists ..except thru social media..and Twitter seems to be the best one for that..i have had a sort of a convo with Lee Ann Rimes, a follow from Bonnie Mckee...i'm on pretty familiar terms with Charlene Soria, and i have a few good contacts amongst the US country scene...i get replies from pro-writers,a couple of messages from producers and other muso's who have been in decent bands........so, you don't send them your demo's or ask them to review (totally not cool) but after time if you build a rapport, then you might!

Stars are not always in control of their accounts all the time ,true...but when they have spare time, they do use them.......the best thing to hope for is that they one day decide to have a look at  you more closely,and click on your Soundcloud or whatever.

[Jess]

how many of them actually deal with the day to day running of fan tweets on their twitter- other than to post a selfie or tweet some crap about loving Breaking Bad etc?

ohmygosh I think this is my favourite quote of all time ever. THIS is why we work together

The thing is, I am addicted to twitter so, I'm followed by Bonnie McKee (and her dog favourites my tweets), I've been tweeted by Emeli Sande, Chord Overstreet, etc. but realistically that doesn't mean anything. (Except from the fact I can run around the house screaming that Gretchen from the Real Housewives Of Orange Country sent me a kiss, but yknow that's not the point). Twitter is like youtube: if you were the only one trying to sell yourself and your product you would be great, but now everyone's doing it it's become such an insignificant contribution. In a way, if you're a famous person and no one helped you get to where you are, why should you help other people? I recon they purposely ignore us so it's like a subconscious survival of the fittest thing going on...whoever tries the hardest gets the most success...those sneaky celebs...

[tone]

if you're a famous person and no one helped you get to where you are

... then you don't exist

[Jess]

if you're a famous person and no one helped you get to where you are

... then you don't exist

Do not sass me Mr Tone You know what I mean like, if you've worked really hard to become famous then you're hardly going to walk up to some randomer in the street like HERE'S A RECORD DEAL, because you want them to work for it.

[Boydie]

or tweet some crap about loving Breaking Bad

I LOVE Breaking Bad  #BetterCallSaul

[Sing4me88]

The thing is, I am addicted to twitter so, I'm followed by Bonnie McKee (and her dog favourites my tweets), I've been tweeted by Emeli Sande, Chord Overstreet, etc. but realistically that doesn't mean anything. (Except from the fact I can run around the house screaming that Gretchen from the Real Housewives Of Orange Country sent me a kiss, but yknow that's not the point).

Have to stick my neck on the line and say I'd happily take a kiss from Gretchen of Wives of OC. In the absence of getting one in real life twitter will have to do - mirrors the whole convo about tweeting artists ironically enough!

I think you hit the nail firmly on the head with your response- in fact I think you've managed to say what I was trying to say only far better (a bit like co-writing lyrics!).

 IMHO the idea that following people on twitter will somehow open up doors to riches and fame is something that does not follow.Stars may be up for a bit of bant on twitter but does it ever extendbeyond that much. Think about it logically; how many people that stars follow or retweet would they e likely to give one second of their time to hang out with in person? Why that would be different to listening to music/writing lyrics/going to soundcloud pages etc escapes me. Stars have people coming to them with songs through established networks- they don't need to do the leg work chasing after newbies and wannabes either in person or on twitter.

Yes there is a slight chance a retweet or follow might led to some interaction beyond a solitary like or comment and an even slighter chance this interaction leads to interaction with pitching scope and an even slighter yet chance it results in a cut.

Twitter may be coolio but it ain't even in the same ball park as publishers when it comes to 'making it'. Publishers are a proven avenue to success with ready made contacts etc while twitter is, to put it mildly a long shot in the dark and a case of pissing in one hand and wishing in the other and seeing which comes true first.

The holy grail is getting inroads to stars not through their twitter account that lets face it their PA is probably spending 20 hours a day dregging through but through their management or a contact at their label. This is one sure fire way of getting the ear of the person with influence who counts. Admittedly it is far from easy but those who are regularly in contact with publishers and labels do have such contacts- made a little easier if they are former Brit school graduates!

[tone]

Do not sass me Mr Tone You know what I mean like, if you've worked really hard to become famous then you're hardly going to walk up to some randomer in the street like HERE'S A RECORD DEAL, because you want them to work for it.

I am too old to understand your words Jess. I apologise for 'sass'ing you, and I'd be even more sorry if I knew what it meant :p

But seriously, I totally understand and agree. But the thing is, the famous ones were never helped by their peers in the pop charts as a rule. They got their breaks because  someone with money saw an opportunity to make more money by backing them.

So no, the stars will never give you the time of day, but the people who put them there in the first place might just be another story.

[Boydie]

The music industry is one of the most "closed off" but also "wide open" industries

It is VERY hard (understatement!) to break in to and the majority of opportunities are taken up by those already in the industry

HOWEVER...

It is ALWAYS looking for "the next big thing" and the next hit song

IF (and that is a big if) you write a hit song the industry (and the stars) will come looking for you!

This is a bit simplistic as you still need to get your hit song to the write person (and it may pass through a load that say "no" first) at the right time - but ALL publishing success comes from having potential HIT songs, which need to be "better" than what the established writers are producing


I think JESS' question about what a publisher does has been answered

May I ask some beginner questions about this strange thing called PUBLISHING. Like what to you pitch? Lyrics, songs, fully produced songs, etc? And do you pitch yourself as an artist or a songwriter or does it depend on what you want to get out of it?

An "artist" would pitch themselves to a record company

A songwriter would pitch their songs to a publisher - who will then use their contacts etc. to try and get an artist to record the song

Nowadays a pitch needs to be a "radio ready", fully produced track that stands up against any commercial track in the same genre

This usually means investing in your own home studio or committing to having your tracks recorded in a pro studio

But as I have said above - you really need to have a very strong "hit song" that you are prepared to invest in

A "guitar & vocal" sketch demo is unlikely to be listened to - even if it is a corker of a song

There are exceptions but the idea that "the song" will shine through and the listener/publisher will "imagine the production" or "come up with their own production" is a bit of a myth

They want to hear a track that sounds like a hit from the first listen - including the writing, performance, recording, production etc. etc.

[S.T.C]

The point about Twitter is it's about the only place you have any real chance of contacting stars directly,although their unlikely to review anything, but many of the people that surround them also use TW. and they can be very accessible..

But this is a side issue, contacting major music stars is not the thing anyone should be thinking of, yes it would be a kind of a 'Holy Grail' wouldn't it if Taylor Swift contacted you and said she loved that song........what you need to try to achieve is to get a buzz going about your material , and let word of mouth work for you.

I like Jess Twitter a lot now, and i can recognise accounts that are run by cronies,P.A's  (Tom Jones for e;g) and those that the celebrities personally use  .

Talk to hit songwriters...it's really not that hard, producers can also make time for a chat,A&R,..makeup artists..People like to talk on Twitter.....

[Dutchbeat]

Hi, i know nothing about Twitter (i feel too old and ignorant for that  )

but publishers can be helpful to help you actively look for interest for your tracks while you are trying to make more music  . They will do that for you because if they manage to get a song used they will get a percentage...but that means there are no costs for the songwriter for their investment of time, and if they succeed it is a win-win situation. Even the fact that they (publishers) are prepared to listen to your tracks can be helpful (if they give feedback or ask you to change things with reasons etc.)
of course it is a proccess with many rejections, but comparing the internet publishers and contacts nowadays to the old days  when you had to send these casette tapes to record compagnies....and really hardly ever got a response or these standard rejection letters, it is more open and communicative now i think, it doesn't hurt to just sent an mp-3 with a few mouse clicks, no costs and who knows....