konalavadome

Heeeellllllppppppp (need help recording these songs)

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Winter1982

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« on: February 20, 2014, 09:41:37 PM »
Ok fellow musicians! I'm stuck. I have lots of songs, around 15 in all and about 10 I want to get out there and I'm struggling to record. Have tried a few times and they are left sounding dead and empty. I prefer the rubbish youtube and soundcloud recordings I've done from the ipad. Why on earth is that?

Anyway, any help would be much appreciated. Is there even anyone out there who might like to record these perhaps? I'm trying not to loose the rawness of these originals. I like the songs to be about voice and guitar but they end up so empty when I try to record that way, my voice becomes small and tinny. So yeh. Any help super appreciated!

http://soundcloud.com/winter1982band/lost-at-sea-structure/s-QCr1P





Thanks

Phil
winter1982.bandcamp.com

Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 10:10:57 PM »
I would love to help but I am a little confused

It would be useful to have 2 links to the same song ie one you have recorded "rough n ready" that you like and one you have tried recording properly that you feel is "flat"

Also, what is your recording set-up?

I really like your "style" so if you want to discuss something along the lines of you recording your bits and sending them to me to process and mix I would be up for having a crack at it

I have a few ideas about why they could be sounding different but need a little more info
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Winter1982

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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 10:29:36 PM »
Hey, thanks very much for your help. I'm afraid I don't have a 'recorded version ' to compare with for these tracks yet. The older attempts I just haven't kept and anew one is on a friends computer as we speak, I need to get a copy but it just isn't sounding right.

Regarding kit I'm not very technically articulate. We recorded with two mics, one directional pointed at acoustic guitar and another broader mic to get the vocal that was up level for me to sing into. Reasonably expensive kit I think and fed into Logic Pro. It just never seems to capture the way the music feels live. A lot of my favourite singers sound much better recorded than live but my stuff looses something when recorded. Sorry I can't send you a link right now, I'll try, but my voice just suddenly seems very small and any texture or timbre is gone .  Interested to hear your thoughts and would love to take you up on your offer!
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Boydie

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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 11:17:42 PM »
Are you open to recording the guitar and vocal separately?

Ie use BOTH mics on the guitar

play around with where you place and point the mics to get 2 separate sounds - eg one pointed at the body for a "woody" tone and one at the 12th fret for a nice "zingy" sound

Try to keep the distance of the mics from the guitar at the same distance

Record each mic on to a different MONO track

Record your song without vocals and just play guitar

Then, listen back to your guitar through headphones and record the vocal so it records on to its own track as vocals only


Your initial reaction might be "I need to play and sing together to get a live feel" but I would urge you to give this approach a try if you have the kit and software

There are pros and cons for each approach but if you are looking for a "top notch" recording that could sound like your favourite singer's recordings then I would suggest this approach to start with

This will enable you to concentrate on recording a good guitar take without worrying about singing

When it comes to the singing it will allow you to concentrate on trying to get some emotion in to your performance

You can record take after take as well as easily "over dub" any sections, lines or even words

I would suggest recording 3 different versions - perhaps experimenting with a take that is really "over-acted" as it is often these takes that communicate the most emotion - don't worry about feeling silly, it is only an experiment and if it sounds awful it doesn't get used so you have nothing to lose!!!

The other advantage is that each track can be processed separately, with a different eq, compression etc. for the guitar and voice

The tracks can then be carefully mixed together to get the "feel" you want

This should make the most of your recording and get that professional "sheen" you seem to be after

There is obviously much more to it but this is the general approach I would recommend
To check out my music please visit:

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Winter1982

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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 11:34:00 PM »
Thanks so much for your advice ! I'll get a copy of what we attempted ASAP so you can hear it, hopefully there might be something  that can be done with it! Really interested in different ways of processing or compressing each to give a different feel. Thanks!
winter1982.bandcamp.com

fischermans

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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 10:55:56 AM »
Your song is great and your voice sounds very cool.For me only the youtube link works fine.
I have had a similar problem that my voice sounds better when it was recorded with guitar and only as a rough demo.I fixed it with practicing a lot and trying not to thinking that much when singing.Only let it flow out.
BTW cool song  ;)
My band and me live in Eupen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_SGRMve1M&feature=youtu.be
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Winter1982

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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 06:57:36 PM »
Hey, thanks very much for the comments and advice. Much appreciated and great to get such a good reaction to the song!
winter1982.bandcamp.com

Winter1982

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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 06:28:32 PM »
http://soundcloud.com/winter1982band/speak-loud-recording-attempt/s-yLmpx


Here's the recorded version. It just seems dead to me. It's only a test attempt but I don't think we are going to try again in the same fashion it just isn't sounding right. So yeh, any help and tips much appreciated .
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fischermans

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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 10:11:27 PM »
Hello again
I have to say that your song is ace and your singing is also very good.May it can be better.Did you record different tracks for voice and guitar?
Alexander
My band and me live in Eupen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_SGRMve1M&feature=youtu.be
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Winter1982

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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2014, 05:29:19 PM »
Thanks fischermans, much appreciated.

Boydie, any thoughts on the recorded version?
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tone

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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2014, 08:11:56 PM »
I would love to help but I am a little confused

It would be useful to have 2 links to the same song ie one you have recorded "rough n ready" that you like and one you have tried recording properly that you feel is "flat"

Also, what is your recording set-up?

I really like your "style" so if you want to discuss something along the lines of you recording your bits and sending them to me to process and mix I would be up for having a crack at it

I have a few ideas about why they could be sounding different but need a little more info
If I were you I'd be biting his hand off right about now ;)

Your recorded version has a lot of potential - it's hard to know what advice to give without knowing your recording process. Did you play and record live? What gear did you use? Where did you record it?
New EP: Straitjacket - Listen here

1st track from my upcoming album -- Click to listen -- Thanks!

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Winter1982

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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2014, 08:57:15 PM »
Hey tone. Yeh I played and recorded live, singing and picking. Then we added the piano a bits of percussion. It was recorded in a bedroom that was the driest room we could find. As I said before, I'm not technically articulate, there was one mic pointed at the guitar and another more general vocal mic to sing into. Sent into logic and layered that way.

Thanks for listening and getting back, much appreciated.
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tone

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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 09:32:21 PM »
Ok, first off, if you want the recording to stand up and you're not blessed with lots of cash to buy expensive mics (I'm guessing you're not since you recorded in your bedroom) then you absolutely must record the guitar and vocal separately.

If you don't, there will always be a compromise getting the guitar sound you want because the vocal has to come first.

Here's what I would do if I were you: I'd go back and lay down the guitar again, this time on its own. If you have two mics available, do as Boydie suggested with one mic over the soundhole and one over the 12th fret.

Then do the vocals using the best mic in your possession. Once you have everything separated, you'll find you suddenly have so much more control in the mixing stage.

I'm really new to mixing, so my advice isn't going to be as detailed as Boydie's or James Nighthawk's or (sorry if I've forgotten anyone!) But I would make it your mission to learn everything you can about the principles followed by mix engineers.

You'll find that these 'rules' are broken all the time by the best engineers, but you gotta learn the rules before you can learn how to break them (IMHBAO (in my humble- but accurate - opinion))

Understanding the role of compression, EQ and reverb alone will give you a much better standing in presenting your track to the world. Don't expect it to fall into place overnight, but by the same stroke, be prepared for a little knowledge to go a long way.

Have fun with it, and let us know how you get on. :)
New EP: Straitjacket - Listen here

1st track from my upcoming album -- Click to listen -- Thanks!

Please read the rules before posting in the feedback forums http://bit.l

Winter1982

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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 09:59:59 PM »
Thanks very much for the advice. I absolutely will do that! I'll keep you guys posted on how it goes and hopefully there will be some improvements as I go! Really appreciate you all getting back to me. Great to have your support and experience!
winter1982.bandcamp.com

clutchit

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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2014, 03:47:30 AM »
It might be worth playing to a metronome too if you are re recording it. The timing of the chord changes felt a bit irregular to me. Maybe you like that, but it's just my own observation.