[beckylucythomas]

Caco: Great response ... did you use EZ Essays in your recent exams?

No, but great idea for the next ones!!        (by the way, I'm sure no one cares, but I'll tell you anyway, got results from exam #1 this week - got 64 which is a merit   maybe ez essays will help me get distinctions for the next ones!)

Gonna have a listen to your song....but can't just now as I've got no internet, so "borrowing" a neighbour's, but the sods haven't left open enough bandwidth to let me listen to anything. The meanies!

[Boydie]

I wouldn't worry at all SHINY

I can understand the negative comments about EZ Keys but I think they are genuinely completely "off base" and are clearly being made by those that have not used it - this sounds really harsh in type, I don't mean to be but EZ Keys REALLY isn't what you think it is

It is not simply a "preset pattern" player

It imposes preset patterns on top of your own chords (sounds similar but in reality is very different)

You then audition styles and pick the ones that "fit" your song - just like you would ask a session player to play your song/chord progression and discuss what style etc.

The really neat bit is that you can overlay different playing styles onto every chord (or every beat) so you really can create something unique

You can also then alter absolutely anything using MIDI within your DAW - eg add melody lines, change/add sections from scratch etc.

Please try out the demo before responding as it really isn't a "cheat" - it is just another tool, which can be used and abused

It is funny how "drum loops" have become accepted but as soon as there are some "notes" involved everyone gets a bit "snobby"

I am being a bit faceceous, I do accept that EZ Keys COULD be used as a cheat BUT if someone has entered the chords and written their own melody and lyrics I think it is quite viably their own composition

It doesn't matter to me whether it was played by them, Gary Barlow or EZ Keys

This difference of opinion could be down to artistic goals - ie I am not writing as an "artist", I want other people to record my songs so perhaps I am less "precious"?

[ShinyThang]

I suppose I was a little worried by the way they lay out the library. You pick a style then you get sections labelled 'Intro', 'Verse', 'Climb', 'Chorus' and you even get endings. If you wanted to you could piece together a complete song from those parts.

I didn't do that but I DID take one section and used it virtually unchanged. Yeah I realise it 'intelligently' adjusted itself to suit the rest of my work but it still took a little getting used to.

Why don't I just scrap it then? well, because I think it's the best bit of the song. I think it sounds great and I don't want to scrap it ...

What do you think? http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/feedback-on-works-in-progress/only-all-the-time/

[Boydie]

Hey SHINY

I think the piano sounds great!!!

This track illustrates my point perfectly

As an experienced guitar player I can appreciate that there are generally a few "standard" / practical ways to play backing to different genres of songs - eg a 12 bar riff for blues, vamp'd power chords for rock etc.

This is what EZ Keys does with piano - I think you have chosen a backing that completely suits YOUR song

I could not detect anything "computer like" or "cheaty" with the piano part (and I listened extra carefully to the bit you mentioned)

To me it sounded like a real player in a smokey club somewhere

I would even say that you could be a little "bolder" with using some little riffs from EZ Keys to spice the piano up a bit in places

Use the "scissor" tool to break up your chord progression (eg keep the first verse as is and then chop up the second verse) and then try out some different variations over the little sections (don't be scared to explore the other genres as you may find something that fits perfectly!)

If you are tweaking within your DAW then it is even easier - I usually just drop the odd section and completely tweak it around

I think if you add some bass and drums (I can really hear a brush kit taping away on the ride) you will have a completely authentic jazz trio track

I would be tempted to up the tempo of the track a smidge but that is just a personal thing!

[S.T.C]

Well if you can`t do it yourself ,you would have to farm it off to someone who could anyway....so it`s a slightly moot point in a way..and whether a human or a machine `creates `for you, it`s a service you just simply need......

The important thing is the song is as good as it can be,,,,,,,,thats why i`m using studios now, how much credit can i really claim,except my creativeness and theme,inspire others to see a song or the song i see!>  

[Sing4me88]

Excuse my ill informed strictly lyricist opinion but isn't the point of music technology to make the musician/producer/writers job easier? Aren't those who write with EZ keys simply using a great facility that has allowed them to better their music. I mean I type all my lyrics in a MS word doc on my laptop. Am I 'cheating' by not using a pen and paper??? Hardly simply doing what is easier and availing of the latest technology. Sometimes it really gets my back up when people denigrate those who use technology etc. Lately I've been having indepth arguments with a few mates about Avicci and the likes. They are argue Avicci, Guetta etc aren't 'real' musicians due to their use of computers, music technology etc.My argument is well it works for them as they make music that consistently tops the charts. In fact the original 'Wake me up' is nothing without the old Avicci magic IMHO!!!!

[beckylucythomas]

In fact the original 'Wake me up' is nothing without the old Avicci magic IMHO!!!!

As it goes, i prefer Aloe Blacc's version by a trillion miles... Personal taste... But that doesn't mean there's not just as much value in what Avicii does...i really don't know what his relative creative input is into these songs, but i'm assuming there's some creativity and skill, regardless of what tools he's using... And he clearly does it very successfully. Different strokes for different folks! 

Good point though....and I agree absolutely that tools are tools and the right tools for the job can be useful in anything you might want to achieve. None of us are creative monoliths, revolutionising musical aesthetics with everything we do. Whether it's a "cheat" i guess kind of depends on what your objectives are and how you use the tool. Even if it is a cheat, if it helps you achieve what you want (and it doesn't make you feel dirty  ) .... happy days!

[hardtwistmusic]

I probably better got check out what "EZ Keys" is.  :O)  See ya later.

[mihkay]

I don't use EZ keys and probably never will. I'm a Linux user and hate parting with money for software! 

However I don't have a problem with anyone using it. Either as a "Session Musician in a box" or as a creative tool for generating ideas.
I'm not a pianist but I spend ages scoring the piano parts for my songs. For this I use MIDI to play back what I could never physically play myself on a keyboard.  If I had a tool that could take what was in my head and transcribe it to sheet music I would surely use it just for better productivity.

It is the end results originality and expression that is key for me. Not how it is achieved.

So cheat away dude. 

OH and really like the song too. 

[seriousfun]

I find EZ Keys to be an incredible help in the studio. Most of the time I write with a guitar and then i find rhythyms in My collection of midi files, maybe EZKeys, or maybe some other source. Then i load these files into EZKeys and start playing with the chords so that they fit with my song. I dont tend to use riffs as I personally believe they need to be individually played, but thats just me.

I dont see any difference between this and using a session musician. Sure it wont be as good as some session mussicians but at thes ame time it will be better than some as well. If anyone feels uncomfortable with this style of approach than they shiuld feel equally uneasy with using presets in synths, sounds from electric pianos, organs, infact they should not use sounds scultptured by anyone but themselves.

As a further note to EZKeys and a tip for other users, While I construct my piano parts in EZkeys i dont use the EZKeys sounds in my songs as there are better sounding pianos out there. i export the midi file to my daw and load the sound I Am after. I also then change my EZKeys patters to held chords and then drop a copy of that into my daw as well and I am then fast tracked for any strings, synths, arps or whatever on another track.

EZKeys is just another tool in my arsenal and infact sometimes it is used purely as an inspiration for a chord progression i may never have come up with my self. in these instances it is the forst track I Start with in my daw and by the time i am finished it is normally totally removed.

No problems witht he use of EZKeys here

[diademgrove]

Hi James,

I think we are not that far apart. The music I mostly listen to is generally all "proper" musicians playing "proper" instruments but when something different grabs my attention I let it in. The point I wanted to make was that if it works and you like it why restrict yourself.

diadem

[Neil C]

As there are no rules or policemen, its up each of us.
I cheat all the time with EZdrummer - maybe its the EZ thing that the cause! Now if someone could get me EZsinger I'd be in heaven!
 
Neil

[Boydie]

Now if someone could get me EZsinger I'd be in heaven!
 

Melodyne and Nectar aren't too far away   

There is also an EZ Mix line but I don't know how that would work!!

[Gallowglass]

I'm not a guitarist but I write riffs for rhythm and lead. I know nothing about effects and pedals so I get the guitarist to decide which ones to put on the bass. It's purely a matter of sticking to what your best at, I think.

[stavcoby]

Personally, if you developed the melody / harmony / riff ect, then its not cheating is it.  Modern DAWS provide a copious amount of sounds we can play with.  We still have to learn how to play them on the DAWS albeit a lot easier than learning a specific instrument.  As someone pointed out, The Beatles used numerous musicians to play on their tracks and even used George Martin to compose some of the piano / orchestra parts.  We don’t have the luxury of paying for these outside talents.  As long as the music is original.