[petelloyd]

The way that the lyric, melody and chords work together to tell a story.

[Mr.Chainsaw]

A lot of people saying melody is key.

What about Beethoven, Fatboy Slim, Yoyo Ma and other musicians that don't have lyrics in their songs?

Peter

[tone]

A lot of people saying melody is key.

What about Beethoven, Fatboy Slim, Yoyo Ma and other musicians that don't have lyrics in their songs?

Peter

I would say that a song without lyrics isn't really a song.

[Dutchbeat]

for once...
I totally disagree with you Tone

the very few instrumental songs that have become hits in the last decades

without having to use words

generally are examples of excellent songwriting (except for some ridiculous synthesizer songs)

[Mr.Chainsaw]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is if we know what makes a good song then if you try and write a song without that quality, it cannot be good.

I believe lyrics aren't necessarily ESSENTIAL to making a good song, but in our culture, they're pretty important.

Speaking of culture, songs can be good or bad depending on something as abstract as if someone likes a TV show.

You play Surfing Bird by The Trashmen to someone who likes Family Guy, for example...

Peter

[mercury]

Very, very, diffficult question to answer!  And totally subjective, I think.

For me, it has to make me feel.  It doesn't matter what, but I want to listen to a song and be moved one way or another - that can be moved to tears, or moved to a state of happy, mad excitement. 

Also, although I love deep, multi-meaning lyrics, I don't actually believe that a song has to be really wordy and clever or overly poetic; sometimes it can be simply the voice that will move me, or just the music.

My taste is so eclectic song-wise - everything from Queen to Dylan; Radiohead to Abba; Lennon and Mccartney to Dusty Springfield...the list goes on and on!  And I absolutely abhor music snobbery - those that state you cant like this or that as it's just not fashionable, dear, or it's just not profound enough.  Everything has it's place - when I wish to hear stories I'll delve into Dylan; when I want an emotional vocal performance I'll dig out my dear old Queen records (Freddie mercury, imho, was a vocal genius, and his earlier song lyrics were completely original and unique - Seven seas of rhye; Killer Queen, etc.).

Anyway, I could go on but I fear I have already lost most of you due to the length of this bleedin' post! lol.

I'm Paul, btw.  Nice to meet you all.

[Shylock]

What a great post - really thought provoking.

I've been thinking about this all morning. Lots of people have said that lyrics, melody and harmony are what counts, but isn't that what makes a song a song, regardless of how good it is?

What makes lyrics good lyrics? etc...

People have said that good lyrics are lyrics that connect, that mean something to the listener, but what is that?

One idea I have is that tension is what makes lyrics/melody/harmony interesting.

Tension is the thing that keeps you listening from one line to the next. The best piece of advice i've ever had was never to let a single idea or phrase (thematically) run across two lines (melodically). This ruins the build up.

Opening lines are so important in creating tension.

Muscailly as well, tension can really carry a song. When the song appraoches the bridge or pre-chorus and the melody soars to a note that just screams for it to be brought back in ot the chorus it makes the pay off so much more satisfying and that is what keeps us coming back in my opinion.

Someone mentioned that the pay-off is what makes a great song and I agree, but you need tension to create a pay-off.

This is such a massive topic, i'm looking forward to thinking some more about it... more to follow...

 

[nooms]

Evening Shylock,

I think the answer is a good singer.
the singer not the song ?

[nooms]

In retrospect i realise that the above remark was a bit of a smart arse thing to say.
Got a great deal to do with it but it doesnt stand up..
Apologies to you Shylock
Nooms

[R.fenning]

Hi all,

I think what makes a great song is the chord progression and Identity. A song should stay within it's own genre, when I'm writing a song if i get a certain feel from the song I try and keep moving in that direction rather than composing to my own strengths as a musician. Lyrics always come last for me chord progression first. If i could work on one thing as a composer I would love to write more complex time signatures, but hey most of the music I listen to is 4/4 so that's what happens.

If you want to hear my music you can find it here

www.facebook.com/robfenning

[tina m]

this is bending the topic a teeny bit but you see i have never wanted to listen to what other people are listening to!
 the bands ive gone right off of when theyve got big & evryones walking round with there cd! i like my music i am listening to to be a bit secret & bit exclusive so i would have to say a good song to me has to have a bit of that in it
& its the same for films & books aswell....i just cant seem to help it

[Mr.Chainsaw]

*clicks fingers*

Oh course! The answer is so simple!

Boobs!

Peter