[tone]

Hello beautiful forum people

Before I launch into this post, can I just say what a pleasure it has been and still is to be connected with such a friendly and talented bunch on this forum. Thanks for all your input

Basically, what it says in the title: in your opinion, what are the ingredients of a good song? I know it can be hard to put your finger on, but that's what this post is about. Thinking about songs and identifying why one is better than another. I'm very interested in your thoughts on this, and I'm going to comment later when I've heard what you all have to say.

Thanks

[Dutchbeat]

That is a very good question...


hard to put your finger on it, indeed

but let's see what we can come up with

mhh....

i have to get back on this one

[hofnerite]

For me, personally:

A melody that can be sung separately from the song and still sounds like a song.
Music that can be played separately and is still attractive.
Lyrics that tell a story or lead the listener to want to hear more.
A musical hook that sounds sexy and dirty at the same time.

That is all.

[robin]

for me, a good song is heartfelt with emotion, be it metal or folk. an expression of a feeling with words and music that conveys that feeling well. well enough for me to think "i wish id written that"

[Andy Price]

I guess something that speaks to you on a subconcious emotional level, I've always found that my favourite songs have always been the ones that can touch feelings that are not normally touched, something in the lyrics/chords/melody or all three that just works and really communicates. I guess the same can be said of many other artforms, I've always found the emotional rewards from music more satisfying though.

[Schavuitje]

That's like asking what is the answer to life the universe and everything! 

I like so many different stlyes and genre's of music and each one for different reasons.

A celver chord progression, a great arrangement, the lyrics, the vocal melody and/or harmonies. Sometimes because it's clever, sometimes because it grooves, sometimes because of the feel.

This is just too hard lol

It's 42 btw. :p

[hofnerite]

Well if song sales are anything to go by recently, what makes a good song? Millions of pounds of publicity and hardly any talent!

[tone]

Well if song sales are anything to go by recently, what makes a good song? Millions of pounds of publicity and hardly any talent!

And that's partly my point. I don't think we can measure the quality of a song by the number of units it sells in today's market. So how do you 'quality control' your songs? Why are the best ones better than the average ones?

[hofnerite]

I agree Tone,

Songwriting is an art form and therefore what makes it great is that we all have different opinions. If everyone agreed then music would become a factory industry. So in that sense there is no such thing as a good or bad song on average, but on a personal level, I think we all know deep down what we like to hear and why.

[tone]

On one hand I agree with you, but on the other I think there is such a thing as a bad song and a good song. And I think it's easier to judge a song on taste than on actual craftsmanship, but that's the conversation I'm trying to prompt :p

Surely you must have a personal list of required ingredients for your own songwriting?

[Dutchbeat]

For me, personally:

A melody that can be sung separately from the song and still sounds like a song.
Music that can be played separately and is still attractive.
Lyrics that tell a story or lead the listener to want to hear more.
A musical hook that sounds sexy and dirty at the same time.

That is all.

I think Hofnerite made some very good points here about what makes a song a good song: especially the point about a melody that can be sung sparately from the song, and still sounding like a song, is criterium that seems to be true for most good songs, almost all them I think

[hofnerite]

For me, personally:

A melody that can be sung separately from the song and still sounds like a song.
Music that can be played separately and is still attractive.
Lyrics that tell a story or lead the listener to want to hear more.
A musical hook that sounds sexy and dirty at the same time.

That is all.

I think Hofnerite made some very good points here about what makes a song a good song: especially the point about a melody that can be sung sparately from the song, and still sounding like a song, is criterium that seems to be true for most good songs, almost all them I think

Personally I think this is the main difference between Lennon and McCartney songs. Macca melodies are almost songs on their own while most of Lennon's (early stuff certainly) was musically great but melodically quite flat.

[tone]

I think the same is true if you compare their songs' harmonic structures too. Macca's songs move in interesting and unusual, but always smooth and engaging ways, whereas Lennon's are definitely more standard. I always felt Lennon relied on style to compete with Macca's substance.

[Dutchbeat]

I agree, but John's style, his 'edge',
his personality,
his input was so extremely important to make the whole thing
as complete
as it was...

sorry...off topic there..but we are not going reduce the importance of Lennon
sorry, touchy subject 

he made brilliant songs

[tone]

haha I don't dispute that he was a good songwriter - far from it. Just that his songs relied much more on the sense of personality as you rightly say, than from traditional song-craft. I'm not saying one's 'better' than the other (song-craft and personality; not Lennon & Macca); more that when the two come together, you really have something special.