[Olie]

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[Sing4me88]

Interesting read. Somethings I agree with, other things that I couldn't disagree with more. I too believe that there is a science behind successful songwriting and the holy grail is trying to figure all the elements out in the magic formula way that works. Some people though I do believe are just naturally gifted at songwriting and don't need a scientific approach- myself I need all the help I can get.

I can't say I agree with your assertion that writing popular songs are simple- if we are talking popular as in 'hits' then if it was truly that easy surely by now  you would have perfected the formula and have written several hits and made millions by now. I'm certainly in agreement with a 'do what works' scientific approach but I think that is only part of the successful formula. Pitching, marketing, production etc all weigh heavily and sometimes it just takes collabing with someone who is naturally gifted and has a natural flair to get something of real worth. As I type this response I'm listening to n ongoing collab demo of a boyband bubblegum Pop song and whilst it certainly might be 'popular' as it is at the moment and there is a glimpse of promise and commercial viability in it for sure we are trying to iron out all the creases to have it 'prefect' for pitching - something I'v picked up for  a particularity knowledgeable member of this forum.

I guess in summary I think these certainly are food for thought and basic 'do's' and 'don'ts' but I don't think you can surmise that writing a popular hit song is 'simple' if you follow them as external factors amongst other things make this myopic point of view foolhardy 

[Olie]

I can't say I agree with your assertion that writing popular songs are simple- if we are talking popular as in 'hits' then if it was truly that easy surely by now  you would have perfected the formula and have written several hits and made millions by now.  

Check out the title to this post, a question probably popped into your head "how is it simple?" or for some of you "IT ISN'T SIMPLE" then you came here to leave your input, either way i got a emotional reaction out of both of you to click this link. If you spend time on making the title you can really produce something interesting.

Of course i don't think songwriting is simple whether you're making popular songs or not. The point was to get your attention through a provoking/curiosity building  title and i predicted your reaction perfectly lol.

a question probably popped into your head "how is it simple?" or for some of you "IT ISN'T SIMPLE"

I think natural talent in terms of building popularity is just having very good social skills - most of this, like being funny most people intuitively know and can do well all the time. A lot of writers tend to be anti social especially me. What's the difference between the popular kid at school and the completely unknown loner? I think there's some parallels to draw from that question.

I think there are universal psychological group behaviors when it comes to sharing information or being triggered/motivated to share something, i intend to find them all.

[S.T.C]

umm..i think this  is  trying to compare songwriting,pop song writing ....to making milkshakes that people will really dig,,,make sure theres ice cream ,banana,strawberry,vanilla..whatever...and it`s going to be tasty....well actually it might not be....the balance of flavours are more important the actual flavours)if that makes sense}

[hardtwistmusic]

Making toast is simple too.  Some people can't do it well.  Everything is simple IF YOU ALREADY know how to do it. 

Nothing is simple if you do not. 

For me.... writing a "popular song" would mean someone pays for it.  Thus far, I've never written a "popular song." 

I think the trick is writing GOOD songs, and then worrying about the marketing.  Dunno if I write "good songs" or not.  But, thus far, I have not written any "popular songs."  Popularity is easily measurable, quality is not.

[beckylucythomas]

Doesn't this just take all the passion - and the joy - and actually, all the honesty - out of songwriting?

It makes it sound very cynical and mercenary, which makes me feel pretty sad!

I may be being naive but I'm willing to bet that no one i admire as a songwriter does it this songwriting-by-numbers way.

I'm not so naive as to think that the marketing part doesn't need to be at least a bit calculated if you're going to achieve some level of popularity....but not the songwriting part.

I'm sure some songwriters must do it the way you described, and do very well out of it, but I feel pretty sure that the songs i love have been written from the heart. And I'm happy to carry on writing that way, whether it brings popularity or not.

Of course that's not to say i don't think other people's opinions are important - otherwise there'd be no point being here on this forum....!

[S.T.C]

Doesn't this just take all the passion - and the joy - and actually, all the honesty - out of songwriting?

It makes it sound very cynical and mercenary, which makes me feel pretty sad!

I may be being naive but I'm willing to bet that no one i admire as a songwriter does it this songwriting-by-numbers way.

I'm not so naive as to think that the marketing part doesn't need to be at least a bit calculated if you're going to achieve some level of popularity....but not the songwriting part.

I'm sure some songwriters must do it the way you described, and do very well out of it, but I feel pretty sure that the songs i love have been written from the heart. And I'm happy to carry on writing that way, whether it brings popularity or not.

Of course that's not to say i don't think other people's opinions are important - otherwise there'd be no point being here on this forum....!

I agree.....you  can formularize songwriting....use current slang,use samples from previous hits....create that generic sound...so it`s got that familiar pop song sound,,,,,theres loads of stuff you can do....but it`s got to be done well enough to make it stand out...

But for most of us, it`s better to craft it out.

[Bernd]

If you know the recipy there are supposed to be successful songs that you've written. Could you give a few examples? It would be fun to see how you apply your own rules.

Cheers,
Bernd

[S.T.C]

If you know the recipy there are supposed to be successful songs that you've written. Could you give a few examples? It would be fun to see how you apply your own rules.

Cheers,
Bernd

Is that for me?
Because if it i suggest you re-read what i said

[Bernd]

I meant Olie who has started the thread. Otherwise I'd have begun "@Name" or so.

I don't believe in recipes myself. Maybe that's why I have no success to speak of ;-)

[S.T.C]

I meant Olie who has started the thread. Otherwise I'd have begun "@Name" or so.

I don't believe in recipes myself. Maybe that's why I have no success to speek of ;-)

Yeah, i know what you mean

[Olie]

Doesn't this just take all the passion - and the joy - and actually, all the honesty - out of songwriting?

It makes it sound very cynical and mercenary, which makes me feel pretty sad!

I may be being naive but I'm willing to bet that no one i admire as a songwriter does it this songwriting-by-numbers way.

I'm not so naive as to think that the marketing part doesn't need to be at least a bit calculated if you're going to achieve some level of popularity....but not the songwriting part.

I'm sure some songwriters must do it the way you described, and do very well out of it, but I feel pretty sure that the songs i love have been written from the heart. And I'm happy to carry on writing that way, whether it brings popularity or not.

Of course that's not to say i don't think other people's opinions are important - otherwise there'd be no point being here on this forum....!

One question: What's the point of a amazing song if no one hears it?

I feel once you find the rules you can start to jump around them a bit for your own songs. Writing songs from your heart without considering what the listener wants could be argued as being selfish? This isn't really changing what you write it's changing how you write and the tools you have at your disposal, think if you had no way of knowing what words make sentence structure. How would you write at all? That's all this is, a structure to put your songs in.

If you're looking for a success story - the title for this thread seems to be working (and i made it in about 5 seconds). Check out the views and number of responses compared to others keeping in mind the time frame.

[beckylucythomas]

Doesn't this just take all the passion - and the joy - and actually, all the honesty - out of songwriting?

It makes it sound very cynical and mercenary, which makes me feel pretty sad!

I may be being naive but I'm willing to bet that no one i admire as a songwriter does it this songwriting-by-numbers way.

I'm not so naive as to think that the marketing part doesn't need to be at least a bit calculated if you're going to achieve some level of popularity....but not the songwriting part.

I'm sure some songwriters must do it the way you described, and do very well out of it, but I feel pretty sure that the songs i love have been written from the heart. And I'm happy to carry on writing that way, whether it brings popularity or not.

Of course that's not to say i don't think other people's opinions are important - otherwise there'd be no point being here on this forum....!

One question: What's the point of a amazing song if no one hears it?

A question in response.... What's the point of writing an amazing song and then making it not amazing just so that it will be popular? The amazing song still won't get heard.

The point of one is to write an amazing song; the point of the other is to make money and get attention. It depends what your priorities are, but i would rather aim to write something i can be proud of.

[Olie]

A question in response.... What's the point of writing an amazing song and then making it not amazing just so that it will be popular? The amazing song still won't get heard.

The point of one is to write an amazing song; the point of the other is to make money and get attention. It depends what your priorities are, but i would rather aim to write something i can be proud of.

Read the rest of it i edited it

I think the greatest artists manage to find a fine line between great art and popularity to ride across to get the best of both worlds. I'm not so sure the point of the first one is to write an amazing song, most people i talk to seem to just do it to "express themselves" which seems ego centric to me. One your writing purely for yourself the other your writing purely for other people, find the middle ground.

[beckylucythomas]

Read the rest of it i edited it

Sorry not sure what you mean... What should i be looking at?... Ta!