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Song-U.com - pro demos?

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ShinyThang

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« on: September 01, 2013, 08:12:36 AM »
I have just activated my free Song-U membership which was a prize for anyone who entered the UK Songwriting Contest (so, in other words it cost me £45).

I read in the FAQs that songs for pitching opportunities need to be professional quality! ... I guess this is the nature of the beast these days but it's a right royal pain in the arse for those of us who can't mix for toffee. Not to mention can't sing, can't play in time .... etc.  I think I'm half decent at the writing bit but I can't make professional sounding demos and certainly can't afford to pay for a house band and studio recording of each song I feel is strong enough to offer up.

I thought that maybe, somewhere there might be genuine pitching opportunities for rough demos to be heard by professionals who are prepared to invest in a writer. Am I just way behind the times?

All the best Grandad Shiny
They're, there, their  ...  They're all different!

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Jess

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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 10:23:51 AM »
GRANDAD SHINY (ok that's your new stage name ;D)
I activated my Broadjam membership (via the UK songwriting comp) and they're the same, except possibly worse because they email me saying 'PITCHING OPPORTUNITY TO KATY PERRY/BEYONCE/LADY GAGA' and what can I do :( plus, why would Beyonce use an online pitching service...surely they all have a team of writers plus themselves? Confused.com

"When writing a song, if your afraid to suck, you'll never write a note" -Jeff Boyle

S.T.C

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 10:45:14 AM »
Hmm..it`s a subject thats on my mind at the moment, the gamble of spending money on professional recordings vs hoped for results!

I have already set the wheels in motion on this.. iv`e asked a forum member if they would be up for it.and iv`e invited a professional vocalist i know if they would like to get involved,,,then theres session musicians to consider ..i don`t know if it will happen or what will result.....but i`m seriously thinking about it.

Alan Starkie

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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 04:14:16 PM »
...but i`m seriously thinking about it.

That is the keyword - You're either serious about pitching songs you've written in competition with all the other pro sounding stuff or you're not.

It won't work if you don't approach it seriously.

That's just the way it is.

ShinyThang

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 04:36:37 PM »
It won't work if you don't approach it seriously.

That's just the way it is.

I guess you're right about that. Sad but true. Unfortunately I'm too long in the tooth to be making other people rich in the hope of some success myself.

That doesn't mean I'm giving up ... just gotta learn to sing, play, mix, produce ... um .... praps I will give up after all ;)

Jess ... I think I like Grandpa Shiney better! Makes me sound like a hill-billy moonshine veteran
They're, there, their  ...  They're all different!

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Jess

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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 05:25:07 PM »
Jess ... I think I like Grandpa Shiney better! Makes me sound like a hill-billy moonshine veteran
Ok gramps :D :D :D
"When writing a song, if your afraid to suck, you'll never write a note" -Jeff Boyle

Onelabel

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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2013, 06:53:25 PM »
I activated my Broadjam membership (via the UK songwriting comp) and they're the same, except possibly worse because they email me saying 'PITCHING OPPORTUNITY TO KATY PERRY/BEYONCE/LADY GAGA' and what can I do :( plus, why would Beyonce use an online pitching service...surely they all have a team of writers plus themselves? Confused.com

I've seen stuff like this loads of times over the years and it's all just a load of rubbish. You're absolutely correct, artists like that don't accept pitches from just anyone. The people who work with and manage these artists work with known writers and producers - and everyone involved is extremely keen to ensure they keep the Songwriting revenue stream as close as possible!

I completely agree with Alan's point, to have any chance of pitching your songs they've got to be in a finished, produced state.

Sing4me88

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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 07:06:09 PM »
What I have noticed is that the whole industry songwriting set up at the highest level tends to be quite 'cliquey' almost like a mafia cartel where they only operate with the same people. Even major established artists spend their formative years slogging away writing for and co-writing with bigger artists; Bruno Mars Fuck you by Cee Lo Green, California Gurls by Katie Perry, Ke$ha for Britney Spears, Emile Sande and Jessie J for a number of artists, Nat Ruess from FUN with Ke$ha on Die Young and P!nk with 'Just give me a reason'. I guess it's all about proving you're good enough and the only way to do that is to put something in front of a label or artist that is literally too good to refuse. I used to think that cracking it once would mean having finally 'made' it. I guess it would help some Kudos but the reality is that even Calvin Harris had tracks turned down for Ke$ha's latest album and some tracks Pharell co-wrote didn't make the final cut for Robin Thickes album. In a way it's good to know the big guys struggle to even if it does leave the mountain looking even bigger for us little people! 

Jess

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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2013, 07:13:40 PM »
Bonnie Mckee said she was a nobody til she started writing with Katy Perry, she'd written for ke$ha, Britney Spears, Rita ora and taio cruz beforehand but even after all those songs she still said she hadn't had her 'break'. It's only now that she's had 6 number ones with Perry that she is 'part of the industry clique'...so we're all theoretically SIX number ones away from success...no pressure guys ;)

...just realised I sound like a Bonnie Mckee Wikipedia...hey ho...
"When writing a song, if your afraid to suck, you'll never write a note" -Jeff Boyle

Sing4me88

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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 08:24:11 PM »
6 wouldn't be bad but at the minute I'd settle for just the 1 ;)

Jess

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 08:32:57 PM »
6 wouldn't be bad but at the minute I'd settle for just the 1 ;)
I'd be happy with a song charting number 2 or 3 or a 23, I'm not fussed :)
"When writing a song, if your afraid to suck, you'll never write a note" -Jeff Boyle

Onelabel

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2013, 08:59:58 PM »
Well having a song chart at 2, 3 or even 23 would be a fantastic success for anyone as it would certainly open a number of doors that are currently shut (especially a 2!)

The higher you chart and the more times you do it means that more opportunities will come your way. After five number 1's I'm sure the sixth was a lot easier. Not taking anything away from her as she's clearly a great songwriter and has the ability to deliver - but she got herself in a fantastic position.

Onelabel

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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 02:37:11 PM »
Just thought of another interesting point regarding the quality of demo's; I set up a meeting with a publisher after they had heard (and liked) some of the songs we'd previously sent them - which were all professionally recorded and produced.

However when we met up with them they also wanted to hear the songs live (just simple guitar and vocals) so its good to see that they're not bamboozled by production and are understandably very keen to hear what the raw song is like.

Boydie

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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 08:22:04 PM »

Quote
Just thought of another interesting point regarding the quality of demo's; I set up a meeting with a publisher after they had heard (and liked) some of the songs we'd previously sent them - which were all professionally recorded and produced.

However when we met up with them they also wanted to hear the songs live (just simple guitar and vocals) so its good to see that they're not bamboozled by production and are understandably very keen to hear what the raw song is like.

I would stick my neck out and say that the only reason you were in this position was because of the original, professionally recorded, demos

If you had sent in the "raw" demo first I do not think you would have got as far as a meeting

The bottom line is (IMHO) that if you are intending to write for others (ie pitch songs to publishers etc.) then you really do have to have a GUARANTEED hit song - that also sounds like a guaranteed hit song

This means a VERY good song (saleable/marketable rather than a "technically" good song) with top notch performance and production

The people likely to hear your song are most often NOT musicians or producers - so they won't be able to "imagine" a full production or "get" what you were going for - you need to put it ALL on a plate for them (or rather a disc  ;D)

As others have rightly said you need to invest an awful lot to get a track to this standard - either in session musicians and studio time or in your own equipment, skills and knowledge

Unlike the recruitment of "artists" where a label might "take a punt" on a raw talent that needs developing (although this doesn't really happen any more) with pitching songs you are pitching against the big boys & girls with their own studios and track records

To break through you need something super super special - all they are looking for is GUARANTEED hit songs, not album tracks (it is the album tracks where the artist usually gets the chance for a writing credit with their own stuff or a callab with a writer)

So the question is - what is a GUARANTEED hit song?

Obviously nobody knows for sure, and there have obviously been some absolute howlers released, but in general I am sure we have all heard a new release and thought "that track is gonna be huge!"

The sales chart of your chosen genre is also a good place to hear what hits sound like - eg if you are pitching pop songs that do not sound like anything in the current top 40 you are probably barking up the wrong tree - and remember to exclude the "singer/songwriter" songs that an artist has written themselves as they have a little more leeway in what they can release, do some research and look for the artists singing other people's songs

Until you have something like this then pitching sites are most likely going to be a waste of time, money and energy

I know I personally haven't written a song I felt strongly would be a guaranteed hit - but when I do I think I will recognise it and give it all of the TLC it will need to break through...
To check out my music please visit:

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Onelabel

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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 12:49:41 PM »
I completely agree Boydie, you wont get to 1st base without a completely pro demo.

I was just making the point that it was kind of pleasing that they also wanted to hear the raw song - sans production.

As far as "guaranteed hit" - well there are a few that really stood out for me over the last couple of years like JJ's "Price Tag" and "Heart Attack" recorded by Demi Lovato (list of cowriters as long as your arm!). However just an average track with lots of marketing $$$'s behind it seems to be whats happening in a lot of cases now  :(