[Kafla]

Right a wee step into the unknown for me here

I began writing this song on Saturday morning and have recorded a quick video of me singing when I got in from work there - my wife will kill me if she finds out as you can see washing piles in the background 

You can also hear my smoke alarm needs a new battery 

I would be grateful if I could get some feedback firstly on whether its worthwhile pursuing - I throw away so much of what I write. My own thoughts so far are -

- Does it take too long to get to the bridge

- Does the chorus work or should I re-write it - I have this vision of a gospel / psychedelic wall of sound with lots of voices. I realise that the singing is bad here but I can sort this

- Would the structure work with one verse repeat second time round instead of 2 , bridge then chorus again

- I feel a mid 8 would make it too long

- What sound should it have

Does anyone want to contribute to it - electric guitar or anything else - I wont be offended if there are no takers.

I hope you can all help shape this and please give me a little break regarding the performance - its not easy showing your face 

[montydog]

Hi Kafla,

No it doesn't take too long to get to the bridge

Chorus is great and I think the gospel choir idea is inspired. I can also hear a soaring string section on the verses.

Erm......not sure the answer to your third question - I'd have to hear it in both forms

I don't think it needs a middle eight - I'm not a fan of them being there just because it's part of a formula for how to write a song. If it doesn't need it, don't have one.

I guess you mean what instruments would suit it? I'm a big fan of strummed acoustic supported by strings and maybe some organ. If you went for a church organ sound, that would tie in with the massed gospel voice idea. If you were going to put an instrumental part in or a break, I'd go with using a finger-picked acoustic guitar - keep the whole thing organic sounding and not overwhelm it with electric stuff but that's really just my taste.

Sounds like a very promising song which is make compelling by your voice which just demands to be listened to.

Hope this helps a little.

Alan

[diademgrove]

Hi Kafla,

I like the song and I think its got potential.

I'd have approached the chorus and bridge differently though. I get the impression from the verses that the embers are starting to go out but the verse and the chorus contradict that feeling. I found the chorus and bridge slightly aggressive. I would have considered making the verses a little louder and the chorus and bridge a lot softer. Personally I would find my wife whispering could you get higher a lot more seductive, but that may just be me.

If you do consider changing the dynamics I feel it would need another verse and a chorus.

The melody to "I've been making sense" rings a bell, maybe something by Glenn Campbell from the 70s. Its good but it had me thinking name that tune, which took me away from listening to the song a little.

I only hear acoustic guitar, strummed for the verse and maybe picked for the chorus and bridge (if you change the dynamics). I see it as an intimate song and a gospel chorus wouldn't fit.

Feel free to ignore my views if you don't like them or think they'll work.

diadem

[Michael]

Hi Kafla,

first of all kudos to you for posting a raw take of an idea, with video... I could never do that sounds really good though, it shows off the songs feeling, and yet leaves room for interpretation...

I very much liked the change in chord progression after the first half of each verse - caught me by surprise but sounds cool - always a good combination.
The "get higher..." part of the chorus is REALLY catchy, you're definitely on to something with that!

As for your specific questions:

- I'm not sure what you mean with 'bridge', I'm personally hearing two verses, a pre-chorus and a chorus. I don't think it takes too long to get to the latter though. However, as I mentioned, the chorus is really damn catchy, so I think it might sound cool if you put one of these "get higher..." parts inbetween the two verses, completely stripped down and calmer, just as a little foreshadowing for what's to come.

- Yes, the chorus/prechorus worked brilliantly for me, top marks here.

- That's kind of my personal default structure as well, I think it would work for this.

- If you've got something left to say that you think NEEDS to be in the song, then go for the middle 8. But it's your song and most importantly you have to be comfortable with and 100% convinced of the structure, so I guess you've already answered that question yourself ;-)

- What kind of sound: always a difficult question... I like Monty's idea with the church organ a lot.

If it where me doing the song, I'd probably go for acoustic guitar, subtle percussion and a church or hammond organ in the verses (and that short chorus section between the verses with just vocals and a single guitar strum)
Then for (what I hear as) the prechorus that wall-of-sound thing you mentioned, with LOTS of background vocals and ooohs, maybe strings, really widening up the stereo field.
And for the chorus itself go back to just acoustic guitar(s), vut more aggressive (like you did in the video)and really loud drums, I feel this part has the biggest impact of the song...
Well, you asked 

Anyway, to sum it up, YES, please do keep pursuing this song, lots of potential here!!
Looking forward to read what the other members think and suggest for this, and of course to the finished song 

Michael

[Kafla]

Monty / Diad / Michael

Thank you so much for your thoughtful replies - I have begun to develop this idea and I am going to implement as much of your thoughts as possible

I must say I am really glad I put this up - there are a few idea I wouldn't have considered and I look forward to implementing them

Thank you 

[habiTat]

Welcome back Kaf, it hasn't been the same without you..

It's like the forum has just sprung back to life, what with you and Paul, and now Nooms posting as well!!

What an excellent way to venture on to the wip board, you've gone and shown yourself and your song in its bare bones state, and I love it. If I could choose, much as I admire your production skills and imagination with instrumentation, I think I'd rather listen to your songs 'unplugged'. There is so much class and quality to this and all your stuff, IMO it doesn't need anything more than what you've done here.

I know you want to take it further and you've had some great advice from the others but if you ever get that album together, stick this song on the end, just like this, one voice and one guitar..

It's so much more personal when presented this way.

Beautiful mate.

[habiTat]

Btw, now you've done this, it'd be awesome if you'd do an open mic for us, there is a thread running in the bar about it, Monty is on first, then I think SF will have a go. Please please please 

And pleeeeeeease, if you do...

GHOSTS !!!

 

[Dutchbeat]

Hi Kafla,

you ask us specifically to give you a break about the performance.....so i will start with that 

it is spectacular, you hit it all poerfectly right and the vocal volume and your vocal skills become even more impressing when you see it happening live, as in one take

yes, please do an open mic night...(see bar section)

as for the song, to be honest, i just listened one time now, but arrangment, so the changes and when they come etc. it all just sounded right too....so not much constructive criticism to add by me, but yes, this is  a song that would be great with a fuller arrangment, but this version is ace too...so nect time, please clear the laundry first, get a new battery for your smoke alarm (or pitch the sound of the alarm to the key of the song  ...and don't film yourself with a window / strong light behind you... , because this product is a product as it is, ah, i don't do this often but i will give it thumps up on you tube 

what i would like to offer, if there would any interest is to try to make a customised drum track...i know you can do that yourself just as well, but i would like to put some effort in that if you would think that might be usefull

that part from 1.30 onwards (listening for the second time now, and just put my thump up), is screaming for a nice stomping beat, and repetition....that it isssssss Catchy as in super HITpotential

cool, if i can contribute anything, let me know, and yes, the images are stored for if i would get commisioned to do another Kafla video....but in the future, don't film with a window behind yourself 

[GTB]

Hi Kafla,

I don't there is anything 'wrong' with this song at all; doesn't need anything else to make it 'complete', no bridge required, it's not too long & it works well as a pure acoustic track. If you're looking for more of a 'band' feel it may sound great some some subtle cello and piano.  If you really do want some electric guitar in there (or maybe some 12 string) I would be more than happy to oblige. 

cheers,
GTB

[Kafla]

Thanks DB, GTB & Habi,

I am more than grateful for the offers so when its produced I will send it to you GTB and DB if thats ok - I have the bare bones already.

Yeah Habi I know what you mean - I was a bit of a 'busker' when I was younger and need to get a bit stronger again on the guitar - I would love to get involved in the open mic - just allocate me a slot but maybe wait 2 weeks 

Seriously thanks guys for taking the time to comment and for your kind offers

[Wicked Deeds]

Ok fella, you've got my attention now.  

I hadn't realised how busy the forum had become. Posting a meaningful review is now becoming quite difficult when trying to return the courtesy of those who hav reviewed your own work

We've  exchanged so many emails that it's so interesting to see you as you appear in the video. I've got to say that I'm disgusted that you've left the ironing unfinished  

Lovely to see a live performance, it might persuade me to do the same in the future.


Right, in response to the questions that you have raised:

Assuming you and I agree on the structure, this has an A, B, A, B, C, D structure (I haven't analysed the chord progression - quickly istened to the different vocal melody patterns so I might alter the structure slightly if I was to do so).  I'd identify the B section as the bridge, though some might say it's the pre chorus.  If you identify B as the bridge, then I'd say it's perfectly placed.  I'd identify section C as the m8 and that too is well placed in this song.  I'd reccomend a return to your chorus after the C, D section.  Perhaps even a double chorus.

The chorus works, no need for a rewrite!  It's impact will depend very much on how you produce this song.

I'm always in favour of experimentation with song structures, so give your ideas a trial. Both one and two verse patterns will work.  Perhaps one will be tidier but equally, a double verse will allow you to show of your production skills. Perhaps build the second repeated verse so that it offers something new to the first or present it in a contrasting, minimal way.

I would have been the first to offer to produce for you Andy but as you know, I don't expect to be producing anything with great detail, for a long, long time. :-(

Now get the bloody ironing finished!  

.  

[hardtwistmusic]

I got distracted by life while I was listening, so all I really know is that I liked it a lot.

I'm not much good at answering the tech questions about bridges etc. anyway.... but I'll try to listen again soon and answer if I can.

Definitely worth continuing on.

[Dave Bradley]

Super demo!

I got distracted by the pile of washing though...I know what my missus would say too... :-(

[Kafla]

Super demo!

I got distracted by the pile of washing though...I know what my missus would say too... :-(

I've changed the song to 'washing time' 

[S.T.C]

Yep it worked for me..nice to hear your accent and see you tiny guitar.(what is it?)

If i had not dropped my camera the other day i could show my place and what a mess that is..still i`m not married so it doesn't matter!!