[Innominate]

Hey everyone. I had hoped to post something sooner than this but every song I have seems to have hit a roadblock. I'm having a hard time knowing where to take my current songs after the first verse and chorus are finished. Musically they are fleshed out but lyrically it has been troublesome. This one is an older one I edited a bit.

This song, I think, is about being a casualty of forces far beyond your control, forces that shape your life and keep you from ever really getting anywhere all while having to endure that struggle alone. It's about feeling powerless to define your own fate or ensure any certain direction. It isn't a new concept but it felt right so I wrote it. Thanks for taking the time, I look forward to reading your comments.

Verse 1
Alone, I look out on the sea
In a boat built for more than just me
And I'm cold and I'm lost and I'm scared
And it's more than I feel I can bare

Verse 2
And I live by the will of waves
Of the cold and the wind and the rain
And I ride every ebb and every crest
And I hope that it won't be my last

Chorus 1
But if I should land on your shore
What have I to give but my row-boat
Without sail
Without oar

Verse 3
As the wind and the rain start to blow
And it stings and it burns from the cold
I will sing, sing on through the gale
Let it drown out my fears and my failures

Chorus 2
And I know, from the stars, where to go
And I hear on the breezes that blow
Of the places that I'll maybe float
But I fear I am bound to my row-boat

Without  sail
Without  oar

Without oar

[benjo]

hey,

really enjoyed reading this, really good flow and feel to it
and loved the topic of the sea well done tony...

[Sing4me88]

I like the feeling of this one. Very cleverly done on this topic. I like how you have likened life to a 'boat built for more than me'. It kinda puts int perspective how many people there are and how so many things and people can shape and influence your life, some for good some for bad.

[PeeJay]

Really liking this one.

I know it's about the sea but i'm going to say that it flows nicely - because it does!

The 'ands' are used to good effect.

Just wondered if a comma might go better here:

'And I ride every ebb, every crest'

And the word 'failures' seems to stick out at the end of it's line. It's like the end of the line is asking for a one syllable word. That's as i'm reading it anyway. You will have a better idea of how it pans out.

And this line:

'And I know, from the stars, where to go' makes it sound as if he's in control when he's supposed to be at the mercy of the 'sea'. Maybe make it 'where i go' - makes it more passive.

Just my thoughts!

Phil.

[diademgrove]

Hi,

I like the images your words create. There's only one line I'm not sure about the last line in the last chorus. The first three lines are fairly optimistic, you have come to terms with who you are but you the raise doubts by singing I fear I'm bound to the rowing boat. If the rowing boat is your gift and you're feeling better about your life shouldn't the line value the boat more.

Of course I may be barking up the wrong tree. If you disagree with my suggestion please feel free to ignore me.

Apart from that one line I thought the words were very good.

diadem

[BooBoo]

Another really good song! It all created an image in my head which I enjoyed. All very cleverly done!

[Innominate]

Benjo - Thanks for the comments and I'm glad you liked the topic. Just one question though, whose Tony?

Sing4me88 - An interesting thought, people can indeed shape and influence one's life greatly. That line was meant to say that life wasn't meant to be spent alone, but some people end up that way. Thanks for the comment!

PeeJay - I'm happy you liked it. You are right that the "ebb" line and the word "failures" don't fit neatly into the pattern. The melody however changes to accommodate this so I does work out. Having only the lyrics to judge does make moments like this a little difficult. It does work though, trust me.

I see what you're saying about the "stars" part of the song in the second chorus. That whole chorus is suppose to say that while one might know whats best or which direction to take, it doesn't help when you don't have any control. "Without sail, without oar" encapsulates the "lack of control" in the song. Knowing where to go doesn't matter if you can't ever get there. Do you think I should try and make that clearer?

Thanks for your thoughts PeeJay!

diademgrove - Thanks! The boat is meant to represent his life, lack of sail or oar, his lack of control. What's a row boat worth without oars? Not very much and he knows it. It is just enough to keep him from drowning but not much to offer anyone else. The three "optimistic" lines are victims of the fourth in a way. He isn't feeling better about his life, just acknowledging that he knows where hope lies if he could only get there, but he can't, he's bound to a row-boat without oars.

I certainly won't ignore you! How you read the lyrics is important. If I'm not communicating clearly enough then I need to work on that. Thanks for all the barking!


BooBoo - I'm happy to hear I was able to paint a clear picture for you, that's what I was trying for. (:

[Jess]

FINALLY I'VE FOUND SOMEONE WHO APPRECIATES THE WORD 'and'
You've literally made my year (everyone else tells me to take the 'ands' out of my songs, so I'm glad we've met
I like the amount of representational-ness there is in this song, you've thought about everything on a deeper metaphorical level, which is really clever. I've just finished analysing the film Life Of Pi for a project and with the whole water, boats, sailor, waves, stars thing it kind of reminded me of that film.
Love the title too.

[PeeJay]

I see what you mean now.

I read it as him being in control and navigating his own course where it should have been read as 'if' he was in control he would know the course he should take.

And - as you say - it's difficult to get a feel for the tune you have in mind from the flat words on the page. We all still like to have our say though!

Cheers,

Phil.

[diademgrove]

diademgrove - Thanks! The boat is meant to represent his life, lack of sail or oar, his lack of control. What's a row boat worth without oars? Not very much and he knows it. It is just enough to keep him from drowning but not much to offer anyone else. The three "optimistic" lines are victims of the fourth in a way. He isn't feeling better about his life, just acknowledging that he knows where hope lies if he could only get there, but he can't, he's bound to a row-boat without oars.

Thanks for the explanation. To me it reads slightly worse now. He admits he knows what he needs to make his life better, two bits of wood, but is satisfied just to let the tide take him wherever. Or else he expects somebody to come along and give him the oars and the sail. Either way he doesn't sound too attractive a proposition for somebody to take on. The bulk of the lyrics to me read that life's battered him but he's struggling on and with a bit of luck could make a decent catch.

Again just my thoughts.

[Innominate]

Jess - I can see how an overuse of the word can be unwise. Connecting one idea with another just by using "and" all the time is poor writing I suppose. But, repetition and patterns are a big part of song writing so if used well they can be really effective and become one of the main characteristics of the song. Hopefully I accomplished that!

Most of my songs are well thought out. I spend quite a bit of time crafting each line to say exactly what I want and make each one meaningful. A song has limited space so I don't like wasting it with filler. That doesn't mean I succeed at it all of the time but I do try for it. I read Life of Pi some time ago and remember it being a great hook for a book. I can't say I analyzed it beyond what's needed to understand what was really going on but I hope you got something meaningful out of it! Thanks for commenting.

Peejay - Do you think I might need to rephrase some bits to make that message clearer? If there are any parts that still seem to express what I've explained poorly let me know. Cheers.

diademgrove - You're welcome. I wouldn't say he's satisfied with having the tide dictate his direction, he's simply resigned to what he sees as his fate, a life without control. Until fate changes that, he's just staying alive. It doesn't sound like an attractive proposition for most people, no. But the song also doesn't make much mention of who he is as a person. Is he kind, caring, empathetic, smart, funny, strong? He has nothing of material value to offer anyone, a strong motivator for how we value people as a whole, even romantically. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!

[diademgrove]

Thanks for the explanation Innomanite. I think if your intention was to have the person in the boat a good man but poor it may be worth making that a little clearer. I'm torn between liking the person, who may be struggling against the odds and keeps going and disliking the person because he's just given up. Both views are used in your lyrics. I think we should be given reasons to get behind the man in the rowing boat, to me it makes the song emotionally more attractive. I like a happy ending, even when he's still in the boat with no oars or sails. I can live in hope he meets somebody to cling on to in life.

Just my thoughts as usual, please feel free to take which bits you want and to disregard the rest, even if its all of them.

diadem

[Innominate]

diademgrove - You bring up a very, very good point. Is his story not enough reason for you to empathize with his plight? Is someone in an impossible situation something you can't sympathize with simply because they've accepted a truth maybe you don't want to consider? I find it interesting that you would feel disdain for or dislike the person just because they have given up.

There is a phenomenon in psychology observed in humans and other animals called Learned Helplessness(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness). Basically, it's been observed that if pain or suffering proves inescapable, the subject eventually does give up(loses hope) and simply accepts it. Even if the situation changes later, they may not be able to recognize the opportunity because to them it stopped being a possibility. You would never wake up thinking, "Maybe it will rain candy today." But that might be just as impossible a proposition as escape is to them.

Considering his situation, it is an impossible task to affect change so giving up is pretty reasonable, why hate him for it? Why not be sympathetic to his unfortunate fate? I understand your desire for a happy ending, for leaving the story with a feeling of hope but that is exactly what the song is about, the lack of hope. I also understand if that makes you feel uncomfortable or that ever giving up being sometimes acceptable is maybe uncomfortable for you.

That being said, how much value is there in music that is just sad? I suppose everyone uses music for different reasons and as story tellers we do need to create connection in a way that is rewarding. Then again, maybe your conflict between liking and hating the character is valuable? I don't know. Obviously happy, hopeful songs are always popular and many people seek them out for enjoyment specifically because it makes them happier. Perhaps my challenge then is to try and create empathy for the character without having to change the hopeless reality of his plight.

Thank you for sharing, your feedback is very helpful.

[benjo]

hey,

 sorry this is late, you asked who tony is in one of your replies to me, banjo, tony is me
 I know I put well done tony   

 it should have been well done, tony

 take care hope this makes sense, tony...

[diademgrove]

Hi Innominate,

my attitudes are coloured by my life experiences.

My best friend at primary school had a gran that lived five minutes walk away from school. I would meet him and go and spend time with his gran and her daughter (his aunty) nearly every school day before school and at dinner. His aunt was mentally and physically handicapped. His gran washed, dressed and fed her everyday even though she was drawing her pension. She accepted her life and didn't complain, at least not to us. This was the 1960s, no respite care and the only alternative was putting her into an institution.

I worked with a man that had over £300,000 in the bank yet he would never put his hand in his pocket. He would beg clothes other people were throwing out and if any food was going free at work he get more than his fair share. He ended up with 7 bikes that people gave away. He showered at work to save money on his water bill. His house is in a state of disrepair because he hasn't spent much money on it since his parents died. I have some sympathy for him because he may have a mental illness that equates his well being with how much money he has in the bank, but I worked with him for decades. He accepts his life and doesn't want to change it.

If you wrote a song about the lives of these people, which one do you think would get the most empathy? Both accepted their lives and resigned themselves to their fate.

All I'm saying is your song misses an explanation as to why he's given up. I can fill that gap with pictures of people who I sympathise with or people I don't. When I fill it with a person who I think doesn't deserve sympathy you ask why? My answer is you haven't given me a reason to in your lyrics.

When I write words the picture in my head is always more complete than the image generated by the words. Unless you want to disguise the image you generally want the picture on the page to be as close to the picture in your head. Your words have allowed me to have a different picture to your intention. If you care about the way I think you'll add a short verse. It doesn't have to be a happy ending. If you are happy with your song you'll leave it as it is.

diadem