[Dutchbeat]

ok, i am in  as long as there are no rules, i want to compete 

i mean,  , join in and learn 

sorry 

what is the prize?

[Ramshackles]

I wouldnt put limits on song length, other than just around the length that the artist has recorded it.

I'm not in huge favour of allowing splicing/rearranging of song structure...what do others think?
That sort of thing kind of straddles the boundary between producing and mixing and where do you draw the line? In DAW's it is easy to splice stuff up beat by beat and create something totally different. That would be beyond mixing IMO

[Ramshackles]

Oh yes ad I agree with not limiting raw tracks.

I think the artist should just be allowed to do what he wants...then submit it to the mix engineer. Just like IRL (although the mix engineer is often the producer in that case but anyways). So if it is just..three tracks or 24 tracks, it's cool. Just make sure they are well labelled.

I would prefer having to deal with having to deal with recorded tracks (no midi or VST's), but if there is midi/VST, I think it ABSOLUTELY should be rendered to wav. Different people have different VST's and one mix engineer might not have any strings VST for your MIDI, whereas another might have EWQL or something etc. So...render midi to give everyone the same starting point.


I'd definitely be up for mixing. May even be able to submit a track.
I guess seriousfun is gonna take charge of this?

[seriousfun]

ok, i am in  as long as there are no rules, i want to compete 

i mean,  , join in and learn 

sorry 

what is the prize?

I think we will need some sort of rules, but you can call them guidelines if that helps  just so that we are all on the same page with what we are doing. But it is certainly NOT a competition it is aimed as a learning exercise for all of us.

[Dutchbeat]

ok 

i hope that everybody understands

when a Dutch guy tries to make a joke....

ok, that sounds bad enough..but i translate my Dutch into English
and expect it to be funny

Stephanie...help me, you at least understand 

[Boydie]

For what it is worth I do not think this would be a good approach for "learning" how to mix "properly"

There are just sooooooo many variables (even with identical raw tracks) that the educational benefit of questioning each other how we achieved a certain sound has limited value - eg a good kick sound in one person's track could be down to eq, compression on the kick itself - but it will also be the mix and eq of everything else so this could limit the "educational" value

If you want to learn how to mix properly you would be better investing your precious time in working through a structured educational programme to learn everything in the right order - and understanding WHY something works rather than just copying how someone else has done something

There are lots of good books, websites, videos etc.

The proposed approach in this thread would be a lot of fun and may be worthwhile for some so I don't want to sound negative - I am just saying there may be quicker/better ways of improving mixing skills if this is truly a goal

If you want to learn how to drive well, or play an instrument well, you learn how to do it - mixing/production is no different (with the lack of "rules" I would argue it is harder!) so it is a case of just knuckling down and learning

That is not to say you can't ask somene how they achieved something in their track (I do it all the time via pm) but I would not see this as a good way to learn the basics

Just my $0.02

[diademgrove]

ok 

i hope that everybody understands

when a Dutch guy tries to make a joke....

ok, that sounds bad enough..but i translate my Dutch into English
and expect it to be funny

Stephanie...help me, you at least understand 

After reading your first post I thought your next post post was funny, especially after my post about not restricting raw tracks. I hope you do join in, even though its not a competition.

seriousfun, I think posting a long list of tracks may put somebody off who has just an acoustic guitar and vocal. They may think this is not for them as there's no drums, harmonies, etc. Which is why I suggested there shouldn't be restrictions on raw tracks.

I agree there may have to be some guidelines. I wouldn't really fancy working with 42 tracks for a song that lasts 42 minutes, especially if it was the first one up. A bit of common sense on all sides should see this being very informative for all concerned.

diadem

[Ramshackles]

Disagree to an extent boydie.
It's always good to learn how different people get good sounds. The basic premise of all those shows out there by top engineers (Pensado's place, ronans recording show) is them showing you tips, tricks and techniques they have learned.

I think the idea here is that people will have a go at mixing and either the best mix is picked and they explain what they did to the track, or people are simply free to ask questions to any of them on how they got specific sounds.
Recording forums do stuff like this all the time..

It's no substitute for an education and if you really want to get into how different techniques work you need to get into the (basic) electronics.
But you can certainly pick up some cool tips and tricks.

[Boydie]

You have kind of confirmed my point with the "pick up cool tips and tricks" comment

I completely agree with this - but the premise of this thread is that this would be a good way to "learn" how to mix

To use the instrument analogy - you always pick up tricks and tips from other players etc. but this is not a substitution from learning the basics in the right way

If this is a means to picking up a few tips and tricks then great - but as an approach to learn how to mix I think there are much better ways

I felt I should raise this point before people spend a lot of time forming "rules" and "guidelines" as the focus of the original intention seems to have shifted already

I have no intention of trying to sabotage what sounds like a lot of fun (which is reason enough to do it!) but wanted to play a bit of "devil's advocate" to help the discussion and help come up with a way to support the original intention

Perhaps a better approach would be to take "baby steps" - ie how to mix a single acoustic guitar track (compression, eq etc.) as the first project, then move on to an acoustic + vocal, then just a kick drum, then mixing a kick drum with bass guitar, then a whole drum kit etc.

I appreciate that a mix should always be seen as a whole but a "step by step" approach would mean people only doing guitar and vocals can "drop out" when they have enough, people not using keyboards could miss that section etc.

[seriousfun]

Ok - the idea is out there if someone wants to run with it pick up the idea and go for it.

I got more than enough flack on my last attempt to try and do something positive for the board, so Ill let someone else take this idea to the next level if it gets enough traction.

Allan.

[Ramshackles]

Don't let negative comments put you off, I think it's a great idea still. I'd prefer mixing whole songs as what you would do to individual tracks changes within the context of a whole song and its more fun

We have a few people lined up already willing to mix:

- Ramshackles
- Habitat
- Seriousfun
- Dutchbeat
- diademgrove

Any more takers?
Does anyone have a piece to submit for mixing?

[diademgrove]

I don't see it as a why of learning to mix "properly". In fact I don't think there is a way to mix properly. I see this as a way of showing how the same basic tracks can end up sounding so different. A couple of examples would be Smells Like Teen Spirit and the UK and US mixes for the Holy Bible. Same tracks different result.

If somebody lets me loose with their raw recordings they'll get an explanation as to why I choose to do something. Hopefully it will be same for the other mixers. If I hear something I like I'd rather know why they did that first, followed by the how.

As Boydie says there are plenty of places were you can learn what to do with EQ, reverb, etc. What they don't tell you is when to do it within a specific song. Or how to use it to get something really weird.

Just my thoughts as always.

diadem

[Boydie]

I don't feel I am being negative at all 

I thought this was a discussion thread to thrash out the idea / approach as the focus of the thread (which is a great idea) seems to have changed

I have "flagged" my thoughts so they are "in the pot" for whoever takes this forward

For me personally I think this type of exercise can potentially cause more questions than answers so I will give this particular one a miss (and I also seem to have no time at the moment  ) but I look forward to hearing the results

[Alan Starkie]

Great idea Allan. I'd like to have a go and learn through the process as I'm self taught practitioner...  
What we need is someone with a well recorded basic track ( I'm thinking Mr Alan Starkie? )
And people should list the major things they did to it to help us understand what was done.
 
Neil

Just spotted this on a brief visit between house/job moving.

Thanks for the heads-up Neil. This sounds like a lot of fun but I can't commit to ANYTHING at the mo unfortunately. We're living out of cardboard boxes and I still haven't managed to set up my studio at my new place of work.

5th July is my birthday too! Lol

Alan.

[Neil C]

Alan, good luck and happy birthday. Hope it all sorts itself out soon and you get your studio up and running. Thought you were a bit quiet.
 
Neil