"The Rules"

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Captain Andy

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« on: August 26, 2009, 12:22:26 AM »
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the unwritten but often oppressively enforced rules that seem to exist when it comes to songwriting.

The sort of rules that say, you have to have verses and choruses, you have to have a middle eight, you have to have bridges, you have to have an intro, you have to have an outro, you can't be too repetitive, you can't make the song too long, you can't make the song too short etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Personally I find I'm getting more and more stubborn in my old age and if I've decided I want to do something a certain way then that's how I'm going to do it regardless of whether it's radio-friendly or if my peers like it or whatever else.

A great song that always springs to mind is 'All Along The Watchtower' by Bob Dylan because it just bashes out the same three chords over and over and it doesn't have a chorus, just verses with harmonica breaks in between. To me it's a perfect example of someone coming up with a great song by just doing it how they want to and saying to hell with convention.

I'm the sort of writer who will happily be quite repetitive if I think that a certain bit of a song is really good I like to keep repeating it. Also, sometimes I'll only use a few words in a song if I think that that's all it takes to deliver the message.

Any thoughts?

tone

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 10:15:07 PM »
Hi Andy

Great post by the way!

I am 100% with you on this one - I can't stand any kind of restrictions being imposed on the writing process.  I understand the idea that a formula makes your song more marketable because the audience are more familiar with the format, but music isn't business.

Of course, there is a music business, and in my opinion, it's responsible in many ways for a lack of good writing in much of the music that gets financial support.

A song should be whatever the writer wants it to be - whatever the writer feels.  I think a strong musical idea and lyric is enough.

To hell with convention, let's not be afraid to write our own rules, and our own songs.
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Captain Andy

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 05:14:16 PM »
I am 100% with you on this one - I can't stand any kind of restrictions being imposed on the writing process. 

Totally. The only rules I follow are my own... and sometimes I'll even break them! :D

Sometimes I'll hear a song and think, it might have been better if there was more of this or less of that or whatever, but if the writer wanted it to be how it is then I think they should have the last word.

emmapeel

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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 04:02:31 PM »
There are no rules.

loisglasspool

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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 01:05:24 PM »
I hate the idea of rules for any art form, the whole point of art for me is to express freely, you can't do that with 'rules' that somebody else has made up! Art should challenge and break these mythical 'rules' in my humble opinion, other wise it's not art.

hofnerite

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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2010, 11:19:22 PM »
Depends how commercial you want to be really. There are no official rules but we all know that if we want to write a hit record, it needs to fulfill some criteria; a catchy chorus perhaps, concise melodies, natural feeling structure etc. There are of course exceptions but these unruly songs usually only appear later on in the career of a professional songwriter/performer for good reason.

Eltoniobonio

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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 08:16:30 PM »
Hi Andy,
    I once had the bright idea of writing a song with no conventional structure like verses and chorus etc. It was well beyond my humble abilities and the example you give is a classic one. I guess it's one of those things that will just happen if it's meant to. The mistake i made was trying to make it happen.

emmapeel

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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 06:12:56 PM »
There are no rules with songwriting - if it sounds good then it is good.

Repetition can be good but it can also become too much and bore the listener. A lot of folk songs are very repetative and seem to have multiple verses and little variation. But these songs usually have a story and good lyrics to keep the listener hooked. In a sense they are not so repetative. A modern equivalent of this is to vary the production and instrumentation with each verse. Again to stop it sounding too repetative.

No rules to say you can't have things actually repetative - but it does have to sound good with that and this can be difficult to acheive. You also want the listener to want to play the thing again - to keep them hungry for the song. (Well if you are trying to sell it anyway) Too much repetition can lose this effect.

You can try anything you want but some things are harder to get to sound good than others.

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mihkay

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« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 06:21:18 PM »
I like to say there are no rules, and while I'm in the early stages I try and let the "muse" take me wherever. But if you wish to have commercial appeal he rules are there for a reason. Most people listen to what's familiar rather than wishing to be challenged.   :( That's why there is no free-form jazz or modern classical in the top 40.  ;D
However, I feel you should just write what YOU like and hope you find an audience.
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