Please Help!

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adambond2010

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« on: May 17, 2013, 04:45:46 PM »
Can someone please help me!.

I play guitar and piano and understand chord prog's and i can come up with music, but the problem is words, i've got ideas for song names but it actually starting it i don't know where to start, and how do you know whats good or bad words wise? it's so so frustrating is nearly driving me crazy, everyone else can do it but i can't get started.

Any advice would be gratefully recieved
Thanks

Adam

fischermans

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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2013, 09:35:56 PM »
Hello Adam
I can tell you how I mostly make a song.
First I need to have a melody means 4 or 5 chords which are played together in a melody line for the verse.Then I play this line ever and ever again and start singing some crazy things.It does not matter which words I sing.Be sure you are alone. :P Mostly after a while there are some words which fits with the melody or do a second, the lyric melody.After that you have to work hard and straight from row to row. Song is ready 2 weeks over can post it. ;D
Hope this helps you.
Alexander
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adambond2010

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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2013, 11:55:27 PM »
Thanks Alexander for your reply, i will try that but say you've got a idea for a song how to come up with words? how do you decide whether it's direct or indirect? etc

I think if i could just get a first line it would make it easier.

Adam

fischermans

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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2013, 07:57:51 AM »
Thanks Alexander for your reply, i will try that but say you've got a idea for a song how to come up with words? how do you decide whether it's direct or indirect? etc

I think if i could just get a first line it would make it easier.

Adam
Hello Adam
I have no idea, I have only a melody in my had and then some of my words fits and I say thats it. I have my first line.May a curious way to do but for me it´s perfect.
Alexander
My band and me live in Eupen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp_SGRMve1M&feature=youtu.be
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habiTat

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« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2013, 08:21:58 AM »
Hi Adam,

I'd say you're putting too much pressure on yourself to 'create' a song in one go. These things evolve, grow from a small seed of an idea. I tend to write my lyrics first, basically like a poem, then sit down with the guitar later. Don't worry about if it's direct or any of that.

Whether its words first or music first it doesn't matter, like Alexander says, maybe strum a few chords and "la la la" along until you have a basic melody, then sing some words in place of the "la"'s , before you know it, you'll have that seed. With me, I tend to write a first line, sometimes plucked from the air, then I write a second line, maybe it rhymes, or maybe the one after that does..

Another good way in can be to sit down with a song in your head (a famous song, something you know and like) then write alternative words to fit the structure. Having this 'ghost melody' in your head can help you to get those words out. Once you have those lyrics, sit with your instrument and come up with a chord structure and melody, (disregard the original famous song melody) and hey presto, an original song :)

My last tip, and I've done this myself, is to write acrostically. That is, think of a phrase, something you want to write about, for example 'I want to write a song' then write it downwards on the page. Use each letter as the first letter of each line, before you know it, you'll have some lyrics..

In the dark
When all is quiet
All I can do
Now I'm all alone

Taken away
To another land
On my own
Words are gone

Really hard
In the dark
Time goes slow
Ever slow

And then it's there
Small idea
Opens up
Now I'm there

Got a song

:)

hab..

ShinyThang

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« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2013, 09:14:05 AM »
Wow! What great advice. I started reading this thinking perhaps I can help and then I found I was really learning how to write lyrics!

Acrostical writing would have a been a perfect approach for the recent 'Conspiracy' competition.

I do agree that you may be over-thinking it a bit. I Love well crafted lyrics. They are a particular pleasure to discover after you get used to the great sound of a new song and start concentrating on the lyric and find that there is more magic there. Every now and then I come up with a lyric I'm proud of but I can't say there is a particular approach that works. I will say that my best lyrics (IMHO) come after a decent length of time mulling an idea over in my head along with a melodic idea but without actually picking up an instrument (Long car journeys are good for this).

I agree with Fisch... Sometimes you have to work hard to make an idea into a complete song. I feel that this is an important thing to realise and I always spur myself on by saying 'If this was easy, everyone would be doing it'. At the same time I only continue with an idea while I am still enjoying it.

I'm writing a jazzy thing at the moment and I am in need of a third verse that just will not come. I know the song needs the verse to sum up the theme and I keep trying to find it. When this happens I make a rough guide recording of the song structure leaving vocal gaps where I want the missing lines to go, run off an mp3 and play it in the car & on the phone and just sing along. Unfortunately even this is not working on this occasion.

Habitat; I have a lyric I really like which started off as an alternative lyric for a very famous song. In my case this was a mistake because I just can't get the 'mother song' out of my head when I try to put it to music.  ::)
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adambond2010

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« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2013, 09:36:43 AM »
Thanks everyone for your advice i will give it a go and thanks Hab never heard of that technique before but will try that  :).

Thanks again everyone

Adam

seriousfun

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« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2013, 10:37:44 AM »
I always start with a short story - even if sometimes its only 4 or 5 rough lines. Then I find a title for it that can also double as a hook. From there I write the chorus which of course includes the hook. Then I write the story from the remaining lines. Normally works quite quickly.

The a few days later after I have listened to it numerous times I rewrite the stuff that I don't like.

Jess

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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2013, 05:01:47 PM »
First bit of advice: listen to the advice above! These guys have given you some great comments. Now my turn...
Don't put too much pressure on yourself! My songwriting became so much better when I stopped being afraid of writing a bad song! (Like Jeff Boyle said "when writing a song if your afraid to suck you'll never write a note").
Also use your experiences as much as possible, and I don't just mean love and relationships. Write about rumours you've heard, places you've been, even objects in a room just to get you started- you can write a song about ANYTHING (I mean hey I once wrote a song called 'Reasons why I hate California').
Personally I find it easier to write without an instrument, but if you're confident at playing then use it to your advantage and play around with chords and melodies.
What's the worst that could happen?
"When writing a song, if your afraid to suck, you'll never write a note" -Jeff Boyle

terrysains

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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2013, 06:57:28 PM »
Hello Adam, I'm sorry you are struggling here is my opinion.
You have a problem and the only way to solve a problem is to get to the source of the problem.
What are you frightened of?
Do you care what other people think more than what you think?
I don't think this has anything to do with songs or music, it is personal and this is what you have to address before you can move on to doing what you want to do with your time and your talents.
easy to say hard to do... I wish you well. Terry.

Stephen Palmer

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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 09:27:38 AM »
Paul McCartney began 'Yesterday' with the holding line 'Scrambled eggs...' Lyrics come when they come. The thing to do is keep the music and wait for good words. It might be a week or a year. You have to let your subconscious do the work.

KEROUAC1957

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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 11:29:17 AM »
I don't mean this in a bad way but I'm relieved to hear it's not just me struggling with lyrics. I've been tearing my hair out for the past few weeks.

I agree with a lot of the advice. I think it's good to come up with a melody and fit some temporary words to it. Then you can gradually mould what you have. It can be a struggle though if you work in this way, trying to figure out what a song is going to be about.

I've changed the process of how I write songs recently. I used to create the music then the melody and then sit down to try to write an elaborate lyric. But I find now I prefer to come up with a temporary lyric at the same point I'm creating the melody by singing the first things that come into my head. Then I use this as the basis for the final lyric by just reshaping the lyrics so that they have some meaning. It feels a lot more organic doing it this way and I find the lyrics sound less forced.

But then comes the tricky part of getting all my gibberish to make sense.  :)

Incidentally I was analysing the George Harrison song Something recently. I read that the original line for "Attracts me like no other lover" was "Attracts me like a cauliflower". Lennon would have kept that line in.  :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:34:58 AM by KEROUAC1957 »

Sing4me88

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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 12:19:08 PM »
I'm not sure this will be of help but I can over my 2 cents. I think in a way you are 'over thinking' it rather than letting the song progress as the product of an organic process. Sometimes I'll get an idea for a song maybe even just a title and I'll stick it down.Maybe I'll have the chorus or the hook line so I'll stick it down as well. Building on this I think of images, lines that suit, ways to progress the song, some ryhmes I like and I stick them all down as they come to me. Don't ever be afraid of having too much as whenever you've got it all you can sit down and decide the structure, length, rhyme scheme etc. Even when I've 'finished' a song I still find myself re-tweaking a line or two.

At the end of the day every song has to start with an idea, a concept no matter who loose that may be. Maybe just a line, a title even a one word concept! The trick is then to build on this in a natural process that doesn't 'force' lyrics or a song. I mean I've got so many pieces that are just chorus or half written at the minute that I haven't looked at in months because whilst I know there is no doubt something of worth in the lyrics and song concept I just reach the stage where I'm forcing things out for the sake of it. I cool down move onto something else and come back to it!

Hope this helps :)

adambond2010

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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 05:21:03 PM »
Thanks everyone for your advice i'm getting a bit better think I do have to tap in my subconscious side, i'm getting more ideas for songs, but think yes I am worried about what people would think terrified actually lol, it just that years ago I heard Your beautiful by James Blunt which I thought was rubbish words wise (saw your face, place etc and and the run down from g to em  and thought that it so clichéd said to my gf "I can do better than that" and think I could/can, i'm a massive Beatle fan but take the words of Glass Onion for instance "a soap impression of his wife that he ate and donated to the national trust......what? great song but the words could be mistaken as gobbledegook lol.

Jess

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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 09:30:53 PM »
Why don't you try co writing? There are LOADS of amazing people on this forum who you could work with, I mean I've never co written myself however it sounds like fun. Also, it might help you finish an already written song or get you started on a new one.
Secondly, my dad used to play your beautiful by James blunt non stop when I was little, therefore it has sentimental value and shouldn't be classed as rubbish! Haha :)
"When writing a song, if your afraid to suck, you'll never write a note" -Jeff Boyle