[Dutchbeat]

Hi beautiful forum people,

I just want to bring this point up, inspired by Saeed's post about having to put (English) lyrics in the post
the rule that you have to post your lyrics may come accross that songs have to be in English and that the lyrics have to be meaningful.

I don't think that that is the point we wanted to make...... it is more that if you want people to comment on your song including the lyrics, it is a good rule to put the lyrics in the post or explain a bit about them

but this doesn't mean that instrumentals are not allowed, or that songs in other languages are not welcome and appreciated. I struggled with the rule about the lyrics myself, as some of my music hardly have lyrics, and the sparse lyrics that i write myself are very unimportant (written almost like phonetic English, so more like lines sounding like English to me  ), the vocal is more an extra sound, but generally there is not any (deeper) meaning than that. In many dance / trance and electro pop the lyrics are few but it is more about getting a vocal melody hook that sounds cool (or macho, sexy, silly, or just weird etc.) but nothing orther than that 

I know some songwriters don't consider it to be songwriting without the more serious lyrics, but i hope we can be open for these styles (and instrumentals) too

what do you guys / galls think?

[fischermans]

I agree with everything what you wrote.I´m open for every kind of music because I love it.
Alexander

[Ramshackles]

I've always interpreted the rule as if you have a set of (english) lyrics that go with the song, then post them.
That doesn't stop you from posting instrumentals, or songs who's lyrics are too short, meaningless (or in a foreign language that you don't think people will understand ) at all.

More...if you have lyrics, please post them

It all helps the reviewer...

[Alan Starkie]

If I post a song idea, odds are that most of the lyrics are going to be meaningless ooohhs or noises or single lines repeated over and over.

I like to think of the voice as an instrument first, word machine second.

[Saeed AlSuri]

Hi guys ..

109 viewers and counting .. only 3 comments .. so this tells the story .. the forum is for English .. or nobody cares what happens .. every body is busy with his things .. even the supposed to be the rules makers .. no comments from them too ..

thats the story there Dutchbeat .....

[Boydie]

109 viewers and counting .. only 3 comments .. so this tells the story .. the forum is for English .. or nobody cares what happens .. every body is busy with his things .. even the supposed to be the rules makers .. no comments from them too ..

I am not sure what you mean by this?

There is only 1 rule maker - and that is TONE

The "MODS" are here to ensure the smooth running of the forum and TONE trusts us to use a little discretion - I would personally not "lock" or "delete" a thread for not including the lyrics

IMHO the necessity for the inclusion of the lyrics can be dependent on the material/genre of the track

Eg I would expect a folk track to include lyrics to give a meaningful review, whereas an electro/dance track may not require the lyrics to be posted to give a meaningful review

The forum has always welcomed instrumental tracks and songs sung in other languages

It is true most people here are English speaking so it may be useful to post either a translation or summary of the meaning for non-English lyrics to get the most from any reviews

This has happened successfully many times in the past and is a non-issue as far as I am concerned

The rules/guidelines are there to ensure that you get the most from the reviews

By not posting the lyrics you risk people not reviewing your track or not being able to look closely at the lyric - I can't see any MOD deleting the thread over it

[Dutchbeat]

that was my understanding too, Boydie. Saeed: don't make this too big, there is really no issue or problem with songs in other languages or other languages in general....at all

your music and contributions to this forum are very much appreciated, Saeed...so, again, i hope you want to stay and share your music here too.

I have a feeling this turned into a bit of a misunderstanding what was meant with the new forum rules, and i wanted to get that cleared by starting this topic...

it is clear that music in other languages or instrumental songs are very welcome to this forum (also see Boydie's comment), and i have no doubt all forumites agree....

[Saeed AlSuri]

Thank you guys for clearing this to me .. 

OK .. so by next week can I post an Instrumental on the finished and unfinished page ??

[Boydie]

can I post an Instrumental on the finished and unfinished page ??

That depends if it is finished or not 

If you intend for the song to be an instrumental track and you do not plan on adding anything to it then it belongs in the "finished" forum

If it is an instrumental "backing track" that you plan to add lyrics to, or more instrumentation (eg an instrumental melody line) then it belongs in the WIP forum

[Dutchbeat]

yes, you can Saeed, feel free to post instrumental songs!

[habiTat]

I'd say, just put as much info as possible for the song, if there are lyrics, include them, if they are foreign, either give a translation or a brief explanation of what they mean.

I always try to introduce my songs with as much information as I can, otherwise people don't know what I want from the review. You get out what you put in I think.

[Kafla]

If I post a song idea, odds are that most of the lyrics are going to be meaningless ooohhs or noises or single lines repeated over and over.

I like to think of the voice as an instrument first, word machine second.

Couldn't disagree with anything more

Words are beautiful but when sung with emotion and a heartfelt melody it becomes art

I think ohs and aas are total cop outs - I know this first hand , I have used them to , but it's mostly when I am too lazy to work harder to get a sentence that fits

Agree completely that the voice is an instrument 

I have posted this more as a discussion point not as a pop 

[Calum Carlyle]

pretty harsh to say nonverbal vocals are "cop outs" - i can't agree with this. I prefer to have as many strings to my songwriting bow as possible, and i won't be arbitrarily ruling out nonverbal vocals for evermore, as with everything else each song is its own case, and these things work if they enhance the song, and they don't if they don't enhance it.

But back on topic, i do think the rules as they are now might scare people off (particularly people who do not have English as a first language, so they may not get the exact meaning of the rules). Would it be better to say that while including typed lyrics isn't strictly necessary, it dramatically reduces your chances of getting meaningful feedback if you miss them off?

[Saeed AlSuri]

Very nicely put Calum Carlyle ...

[Sing4me88]

Tbh honest I try to use nonverbl vocal ohs, yeahs, ahs, na's etc to add melodic hook to a song... actually sometimes these are the most catchy parts of the song and the 'bit' that gets stuck in peoples heads ie 'Oh,oh, oh, oh' in Alicia Keys Girl on Fire, the 'whoah, whoah, whoah' in FUN Some nights etc..  seems to work for them and also Bruno Mars, Olly Murs, Taylor Swift etc so I guess it's good enough for me... I don't think its lazy I actually think its uber clever using simple noises to hook people into a song