[Boydie]

Hi All (especially those recording a single acoustic guitar so check this out HAB and MONTY!)

I came across this tip for creating a big acoustic guitar sound from a mono (single mic) source so that it sounds like it was recorded with stereo mics

Stereo mics can be a real pain, especially on your own, as if you don't get them in exactly the right positions you can get phasing issues (where the sondwaves hit the mics at different times)

Here is the trick...

Take your single mic'd take and PAN it dead centre
Duplicate this track twice - panning one all the way to the LEFT and the other all the way to the RIGHT

Now, imagine the guitarist sitting in front of you...

RIGHT TRACK
Solo this track

On this track we want to mimic the sound of a mic pointing at the neck of the guitar so we want to emphasise the string noise, finger squeaks etc.

EQ is your friend here so a HIGH PASS FILTER (HPF) set nice and high will remove all the low end and leave the high end - you could even boost a few of the higher end frequencies to taste

LEFT TRACK
Solo this track

On this track we want to mimic the sound of the mic pointing at the body of the guitar so we want the strumming sound, any knocks on the body and a nice "woody" tone

Use the EQ again but this time a LOW PASS FILTER (LPF) so that you cut out all the high frequency stuff – you can then EQ to taste but forget about the “overall sound” – just look for the “body tone”

Now play all of the tracks back and balance the levels to taste

If it is a little over powering in tone you can always shave some highs and lows off of the centre track using a HPF and LPF

You should end up with a lovely, wide, acoustic sound that has a stereo feel

Let me know if you try it

[habiTat]

Excellent, cheers Boydie, I've printed that out and I'll be trying it.

Thanks

hab.

[James Nighthawk]

Interesting idea. First thing that comes to mind:

Make the HPF and LPF gentle. Don't cut ALL the high or low on either, just a "chunk" by ear. And a smooth, gentle curve to full frequency so the ear doesn't here the EQing

A neck mic will still pick up the low at a distance, and the same for the body re' the high.

Would be interested to hear everyone's results

[Boydie]

I think the idea is that they will ALWAYS be played with the original (centre panned) track so you are actually "parallel processing"

The theory is, as the original is there you can be aggressive with hpf and lpf to just let these areas "poke through" on either side

The original is still there centre panned (ie equally either side)

Either side on its own should sound awful but the blend should be nice with that "stereo spread" effect

I have not tried it yet but saw the tip and thought of a few guys here that might like to give it a go

[Ramshackles]

Nice tip, I'll be trying that out at some point. I imagine it makes a single acoustic song or sparse arrangement sound much fuller. I guess that the extent at which you apply the HP and LP filters affect how wide the guitar appears?

I think if you make the filters too gentle, it won't sound that much different to mono...if you take a mono track and duplicate it, putting one left, one right and one centre, all you will get is a mono sound but louder....(+6 dB or 3dB for each duplication, I don't remember...)

I have another slightly simpler tip for faking stereo on guitars...This one leaves a nice hole in the centre making it easy to have a really clear and spacious acoustic sound in a dense mix.

Here is what the original recording of the guitar sounds like:
https://soundcloud.com/ramshackles/guit-mono/s-X1z6d

Here is how it sounds after this stereo technique:
https://soundcloud.com/ramshackles/guit-stereo/s-iUrph

Heres the trick:

1. Take your recorded track and duplicate it.
2. Now you have two tracks, pan one hard left and one hard right
3. Take one of the tracks and add a small delay to it. Somewhere between 10-40ms. This kind of delay is called a Haas delay. In a DAW you can just do it by manually shifting one of the tracks.

You'll notice that as you increase the delay, the stereo image becomes wider...you can often make it appear much wider than the 'limits' of your songs imaging..
If you go too far though, the delay becomes noticeable and the psychoacoustic effect is lost...

[Ramshackles]

Just thinking, another way to do Boydie's tip would be to set up a couple of sends, the returns of which are all left and all right. Then you apply the EQ in each aux channel...

This is a bit more flexible because you can control the amount of the original track that is sent to each channel (again controlling the width I believe) and opens up other routing possibilities.
It also means that if you decide you need to go back and edit the original track you dont have go through duplicating it all again.
Also if you want inserts such as compression or general EQ, then you can just put it on the original track instead of either applying it to each individually or having to create a group channel for the 3 tracks...

As far as I can see, this would also be the easiest _(or only?) way to do it if you were mixing on a console

[Boydie]

Absolutely RAMSY

I think using buses would actually be a better way due to flexibility, resources etc.

I thought the explanation with TRACKS would be easier to explain and to understand the principles

I am about to post another video that shows some amazing stuff using "parallel processing" on buses, which you setup and then "mix in to" rather than processing the sounds themselves

As you will see in the video this is an extension of the "old skool" console mixing approach used "back in the day" and the results sound AWESOME!

[habiTat]

I just tried it Boydie, it instantly brings the guitar forward, on headphones anyway, like the guitar is in your head! It sounds much better. This could really help me, thankyou!

 

hab..

[Neil C]

Boydie,
I guess you could nudge the timing or use a tad of reverb on one to achieve a similar effect?

However for a free vst cheat http://www.vescofx.com/vfxFreeHaas, its also useful on vocals.

Neil
 

[Ramshackles]

Boydie,
I guess you could nudge the timing or use a tad of reverb on one to achieve a similar effect?

However for a free vst cheat http://www.vescofx.com/vfxFreeHaas, its also useful on vocals.

Neil
 

yes see my 1st post (4 above). Just duplicate the track once and nudge one of the tracks up to 40-50ms and you'll get the impression of width.

Boydie's technique will also maintain the guitar in the centre, giving a very full sound across the stereo image, which is pretty good for sparse mixes.
The Haas technique will give the impression of greater width.

[Boydie]

I think we are talking about 2 different things (both good)

My approach is intended to give the impression of a mic'd in stereo ( one mic picking up more of the body and one picking up more of the neck/string noise

The idea is to get the feel of a guitarist playing in front of you


The other technique described by NEIL C is a great way to get a "wider"/bigger sound - but it will be the SAME fundamental sound - but "bigger"

Both are worth giving a whirl and may suit different scenarios - you can never have too many ways to get a big acoustic guitar tone!

[Ramshackles]

I think we are talking about 2 different things (both good)

My approach is intended to give the impression of a mic'd in stereo ( one mic picking up more of the body and one picking up more of the neck/string noise

The idea is to get the feel of a guitarist playing in front of you


The other technique described by NEIL C is a great way to get a "wider"/bigger sound - but it will be the SAME fundamental sound - but "bigger"

Both are worth giving a whirl and may suit different scenarios - you can never have too many ways to get a big acoustic guitar tone!

They are the same in that they are both creating a stereo image from a single mono source.
Your setup reminds me of the decca tree micing technique (traditionally used on orchestras). If you were actually stereo mic'ing your guitar, I think the 'fake' stereo technique you describe would be most similar to a traditional spaced pair.

I had a play around with it on the same guitar track I posted above. I sent the L & R channels out to a couple of HE69 EQ's, which have very gentle & musical shelving filters.
I got great results from some very gentle filtering on the L & R and adjusting the volume of the centre track

You need to be careful with the filters as you can end up with an unbalanced stereo image in terms of it's frequency content, as you are basically are shunting the lows to one side and the highs to the other, which can be a bit off putting (especially on headphones) if you take it too far..

You can achieve pretty much the same thing with just two tracks - leaving the centred track out and applying a broadband boost across the midrange of both the L & R tracks.

Instead of manipulating the apparent width by altering the tonal response in each side, the Haas effect uses an imperfection of our brain, in that we don't perceive small delays as timing differences, but as spatial differences. It is somewhat similar to using a mid-side microphone setup.
You can achieve a wide stereo image while maintaining tonal balance in each side this way, but the results are not very mono-compatible.

Both techniques give you interesting and useful results depending on the application, both have drawbacks.
And they both have the common drawback that in comparison to true stereo recording I always find them disappointing! If you have a couple of mic's it's always worth having fun with the many different stereo techniques....

/endofgeek-out

[Boydie]

You need to be careful with the filters as you can end up with an unbalanced stereo image in terms of it's frequency content, as you are basically are shunting the lows to one side and the highs to the other, which can be a bit off putting (especially on headphones) if you take it too far..

You are right about being careful...

...BUT - it is this unbalanced tonal stereo image that is the key to this technique

ie one mic picking up more of the body ("woody mids") and one picking up more of the neck/string noise (highs)

This is what makes it a little different from the other technique of panning a slightly delayed signal or processing both sides equally

You are spot on though that care is needed to ensure it does not sound too unbalanced

However with the original recording in the middle (ie equal amounts in L & R channels) you can use extreme EQ to just add the "emphasis" from the other tracks - the ear will not hear the individual tracks L & R - it will just hear the EQ emphasis "on top" of the original (centre panned) recording