[Kafla]

You know everything does settle into an equilibrium over time as some have stated

It really is just new members joining - posting lots of songs ( through eagerness ) and reviewing the songs at the top of the first page ( as they don't know better )

And the user types who post a few songs and clear off

So what I am saying the is that the problem lies here

I think if Tone could impose some tighter restrictions to new members - can't post a new topic until they hit 50 posts and obviously throw out spammers that try to circumvent this rule we may solve 90% of the issue

That way they would also see how the forum works and whether it is for them 

[tone]

Thanks for keeping this thread going peeps

Here's what I think of minimum post counts: spam. With the best will in the world, they lead to more spam, and more work for the mods.

Now I'm happy to appoint more mods, but I'd rather avoid more spam if I can.

But I've come up with this possible solution: A review post format. Fro example, the poster must follow certain guidelines such as stating who wrote the music & lyrics, state of completion, what they're hoping to gain from review (improve song, improve production etc), a full copy of the lyric, and .... whatever else we decide.

Members who can't be bothered to read the guidelines and follow the post format have their post removed without warning or explanation.

Those who do read it will be forced to think more carefully about what to expect from asking for a review, and will be reminded that this is a community designed for mutual support and encouragement, not just pats on the back.

Thoughts?

[habiTat]

Thanks for keeping this thread going peeps

Here's what I think of minimum post counts: spam. With the best will in the world, they lead to more spam, and more work for the mods.

Now I'm happy to appoint more mods, but I'd rather avoid more spam if I can.

But I've come up with this possible solution: A review post format. Fro example, the poster must follow certain guidelines such as stating who wrote the music & lyrics, state of completion, what they're hoping to gain from review (improve song, improve production etc), a full copy of the lyric, and .... whatever else we decide.

Members who can't be bothered to read the guidelines and follow the post format have their post removed without warning or explanation.

Those who do read it will be forced to think more carefully about what to expect from asking for a review, and will be reminded that this is a community designed for mutual support and encouragement, not just pats on the back.

Thoughts?

That sounds very sensible, and very reasonable, spammers and non-committed types will soon get fed up if their 'Here is my new song, tell me what you think + link' posts keep getting deleted. Proper, worthwhile members will read the rules and hopefully participate and embrace the community.

It would also be useful to know what people want in a review, so we can listen for any specifics. I find reviewing quite difficult at times, especially when the song quality is high. If the poster wants opinions on arrangement or tempo etc, it would be much easier to focus on those points when listening. If they just purely want 'do you like it? would you buy it?' reviews that would also be nice to know they are after a pat on the back. I'm happy to say I like something if I do.

Little Bill works well in enforcing the one per week rule, so this proposal, along with the larger pages you've made could well fix the issue.

I'm in favour

[Dutchbeat]

all i am trying to say
and i will try one more time..

give a seven days cooling period to a excited new member who wants to post his or her song  right away

that will select the real interested ones from the complete spammers


once you join, you can do everything, except for post your own song, for seven days...

you have to hang in for seven days, and then you get to start posting your own material

that will get rid of almost all the spamming al together

come on guys and galls, listen to old Dutchbeat 

for once

and oh, while you are here, vote for Dutchbin, by the way 

[montydog]

Tone,

Sounds like a reasonable idea to me. I'd still like to see a seperate section for works in progress or rough demos with an emphasis on reviewing the song, not the productio/mix/mastering which could be the emphasis in the finished recordings section.

M

[Boydie]

I completely agree with DB's 7 day cooling off period

I think this is an inspired idea that will solve a lot of the "fly  by night" posters

I also think the mods/Little Bill could be a little more "pro active" with the regular "takers" that do not contribute (although to fair they may be doing this via PMs)

To say that it will sort itself out by them not getting reviews by not reviewing others does not really stand up now that the place is so busy - it is more difficult to identify the wrong 'uns

[monkfish79]

Hi guys,

As a relative noob here, I'm not sure how welcome I am to comment, but I'll add my tuppence worth anyway!

The thing that struck me about this forum initially is the good general vibe from the regular posters. Any good online community will grow naturally, but you do tend to see like minded people making up the bulk of the user base - people who ignore the ground rules don't tend to do well...

Some other forums work on a "post x reviews before posting a song" basis, though they're not ones that I post on so I'm not sure how effective it is - I can imagine that it's probably highly dependent on how involved mods get.

DB's cooling off idea is a good one also, imo.

[tone]

I'm not convinced by the cooling off period, despite Dutchbeat being one of my favourite forumites

I've 2 reasons for this: first is that some great members have found the forum in the excitement of wanting to share their music. They've headed straight for the reviews board, and I understand.

But more importantly, the current forum software doesn't support automation of anything like this, making it pretty unworkable for the mods...

@monkfish - thanks for chipping in. Everyone is welcome on this thread

[James Nighthawk]

So Tone, you would have a opening post be:

SONG NAME: Let me Know (live)
WRITTEN BY: James Nighthawk
RECORDING TYPE: Live recording
FEEDBACK WANTED: General notes on writing. Performance. Quality of ambient recording
GENERAL NOTES: I wrote this song while thinking about....etc ect...

I like this idea. It is clear and will make scanning and replying quicker, AND give an incentive for people to use the place properly, as a forum for growth, encouragement etc.

Note: the setup above is clear and follows your idea, but laying it out as such, inputting the bold coding etc is more than some will bother with. The question is therefore, is there some way of having a submission form that sets out these fields? Then we fill in the five boxes and the above is generated on the post. Thereafter, replies on the thread would be as they are now..

I don't know if this is a simple bit of coding or a nightmare, so apologies if that is one hell of an ask!!

I too disagree with the cooling off period idea (no offence Dutchy, still love ya!!). When I joined I posted day one. It was exciting. Who wants to give a kid a Christmas present only to say they can't open it for 7 days!!

 Let's be fair here... all musicians are kids that never grew up 

[Alan Starkie]

I think it's getting too complicated.

What about this one simple cast iron rule:

For every review you receive - You must review that person's latest song.

If you get 10 reviews from 10 different people, you must review those 10 people.

Simple.

[man of simple pleasures]

I think it's getting too complicated.

What about this one simple cast iron rule:

For every review you receive - You must review that person's latest song.

If you get 10 reviews from 10 different people, you must review those 10 people.

Simple.

some intersting stuff going on in this thread like but i think this is the best way forward i would say, its always nice to get a review even if they not too keen on a song i have put up but listened so be good to hear from those people

at the end of the day we all on here for the same reason to listen to songs and hopefully they'l listen back

i'm not that great with detail when i stick a review up but i love listeneing to peoples songs and i always try and stick as many commments as i can up about the song

[James Nighthawk]

@ Perseverance

I think in many ways this thread is about finding a simple route or two to tweak the forum to make sure it stays in good stead.

Tit for tat makes sense on paper. But it falls flat when someone reviews "Yeah, nce track, like teh gtrs". And then someone like myself who would rather review in depth (when required, obviously). Do I then feel obliged to return this chap's half-assed effort with a similar one?

This is why I am personally weary of ANY rule enforcement. As of now, I scan the boards on a regular basis. I know the lads and ladettes who are of a community spirit. And those that have just flown in for exposure. Newbies that join in are fairly easy to spot, as their names pop up on other review thread, and so I review and welcome them.

OF COURSE: the problem with the above is it risks clique-i-ness. Which I dislike!

This is why there is no simple answer to this.

As other have said, it may be a combination of a few ideas, gently employed, that together keep the forum on track


On which note, another point: What happened to the old forum "level" system. We are all buskers again?! A visual nudge to show people that have "ranked up" might help?


I think the discussion here is healthy assuming any decisions are taken carefully. Which Tone is very good at. Knee Jerk is never good!

[Alan Starkie]

@ James Nighthawk

'Tit for tat makes sense on paper. But it falls flat when someone reviews "Yeah, nce track, like teh gtrs".'

I don't think this happens very much at all.

I can't remember anyone leaving that kind of review with my stuff anyway.

Keep it simple say I.

[Boydie]

I think it's getting too complicated.

What about this one simple cast iron rule:

For every review you receive - You must review that person's latest song.

If you get 10 reviews from 10 different people, you must review those 10 people.

Simple.

This seems more complicated than all of the suggestions so far

Who is going to monitor and enforce this rule?

I can't really see the song posters caring that much about counting their reviews and "ratting" on other people that haven't returned the favour

The issue seems to raise its head every couple of months (and I am not sure that was even the original intention of this thread) but on a day to day basis I think most are generally happy with how it goes

The mods would definitely not be able to cross reference and tally the reviews

I do think it is worth throwing in to the pot though

As JN has said the ideal would be a few tweaks here 'n' there - ideally automated within the coding of the forum to take any "subjective" opinions out of the way

The longer front page has already made a huge improvement IMHO so a few more considered tweaks may help

[Alan Starkie]

I don't think it's more complicated than all of the suggestions so far.

It doesn't require any coding although it does require the good will of forum users I suppose.

Any rule is going to have to be enforced/monitored by the mods.

It wouldn't be a case of 'ratting' on anyone.

If you get a review, return the favour basically. If you don't want to return the favour, leave the forum.

That's what I meant by the comment.

It would help reduce fly by night users.