Proposal - The Forum Core

  • 73 Replies
  • 10410 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Boydie

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3975
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 11:48:56 AM »
I like the idea of the "2 week" post - as long as it also counts for "revisions" of songs

This is how I see the "finished" / wip split:

It is obviously up for discussion but the way I would sse it is that the reviews board would remain pretty much as it is but without the "I wrote this part of a song this morning, what do you think" followed a day later by another separate post saying "I have now added some drums" follwed by another separate post saying "here is the song with a chorus" etc.

When people then try to review there are comments by the op along the lines of "don't worry about ####, that will be fixed in the final mix"

This results in numerous posts, which gets confusing as to which one to review, but when a review is given it is almost dismissed as it is not the finished product

Now, I do not actually see anything "wrong" with doing this and it would be great to hear more of this kind of approach to hear songs develop by different writers but now the reviews forum is busier it seems to make sense to separate the "wip" songs from the "finished" songs

We can still obviously still make the same comments on the "finished" songs (as we know, songs are never finished!) but I feel once you have posted a song in the "finished" forum you shouldn't really need to go back and post loads of revisions

Take the feedback on board (or not) and improve the track for yourself - or go back to the wip forum with it for feedback on revisions, re-writes

For me the "finished" reviews forum should be reserved for your "best shot" at that particular moment in time

Everyone's "best shot" will be different but getting feedback on your best shot will ensure your next best shot will be better etc. etc.

As for the "core group" / membership thing I see this as a totally different issue and there are lots of different approaches and ways to "manage" it

The first step is deciding if this is what people want and THEN looking at how to do it

Getting bogged down in the second step before deciding the first could be a waste of time and energy


Info can be passed via email/PM but the whole point of a "community" is to share and discuss info

If there are people PMing each other with useful info I want to see it!!!

A "private" forum would be more like a group PM, which whilst not ultra secure will prevent the whole t'internet seeing the info and for all of the potential "horror stories" we could dream up it will end up being those that want to be members (the "core") thst would use the members section anyway - "the bar" is open to everyone but only a few (the core?) use it for the community feel - rather than just posting songs for review - so there is already a 2 tier structure when you think about it!
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

Ramshackles

  • *
  • Global Moderator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
  • https://soundcloud.com/ramshackles
    • Ramshackles @ Facebook
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 12:19:58 PM »
If you want a more 'exclusive' part of the forum, why not just dip into any of the sub-forums that are not the reviews section though  ;D

Seriously though, as someone who probably spends more time in other parts of the forum than most, I can say that the people posting there doesn't change too much.
For all these 'new' members, there activity is generally in the reviews section only. For new members that stick around and join the 'community', you can see that they get more involved in other parts of the forum.
Just look back at who is posting in this thread or any of the previous ones like it..
Or dip into 90% of the 'recording' threads.

I think, short of making it a pay-to-join service (not in favour of that), you will always get people who just want to post there songs on the reviews forum to promote themselves and then clear off...

Splitting the reviews forum into 'works in progress' and 'finished works' could be a good idea

tone

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Forum Former Führer
  • Posts: 3551
  • The People's Democratic Republic of Songwriting
    • Anthony Lane on soundcloud
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 12:49:21 PM »
OK this is great - glad so many of you lot care enough to write at length about how you feel. A couple of points worth mentioning:

If we go down the subscription route, it's not going to effect you lot. You've earned your (lifetime) subscriptions already. For newbs, it would be a case of something like £2 per month or £20 per year.

What do you think of that?

I'm about to edit the guidelines for posting to explicitly specify that there should be no more than one thread per song. If you add drums, post in your original thread ffs :p

I'm still split on the idea of dividing the reviews forum, but happy to take a vote of all those present (all those who miss this thread/ don't bother with it forfeit the right to vote!

I can increase the number of posts per page if you guys think it will help?

:)
New EP: Straitjacket - Listen here

1st track from my upcoming album -- Click to listen -- Thanks!

Please read the rules before posting in the feedback forums http://bit.l

habiTat

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1455
    • habiTat songs
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 01:16:16 PM »
I vote for the wip board.

What would the 'full member' membership offer/provide?

I'm definitely in favour of cementing our regulars and rewarding loyalty though, this main core of people is why I continue to visit, you are a really good bunch :)

Hab..

nooms

  • *
  • Global Moderator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1963
  • songwriter
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 04:25:01 PM »
im not sure the Forum needs changing that much
i dont think the reviews section should be divided either.
right now we're open to all influences, unfiltered on one board. and thats a plus..
we need to be jolted occasionally, thats how things move along, clashes of style create new shapes and ideas, cross pollination...how d you meet interesting people or thought provoking ideas if you choose beforehand who they are going to be ?
So Im for keeping the review section set up simple. .
Its all about songwriting no matter what genre it is, something moves you or it doesnt.
Right now the chemistry swings this way and that way, but theres a tide.
i may not believe this tomorrow...

https://soundcloud.com/nooms-1

Dutchbeat

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2013, 04:36:03 PM »
couldn't we just make the entering stage for a new member a bit more regulated, so that some more effort should be put in getting started????

So, that people who seriously want to join in are selected in a natural way, because it takes some effort...

For instance, say you have to introduce yourself in the introduction section first before you can even post a song of yourself...(i mean, that it technically doesn't work without at least an introduction post), and even after the introdution e-mail it takes something like a week before one can start to post your own material? Meanwhile the new songwriter can listen and comment on other peoples songs. I think that songwriters that plan to stay the week and really do that without having a song of themselves on the boards, are more likely to really want to join in (as in interact with other songwriters). Chances are that these new songwriters will take some notice in some form of what is going on on the forum in that first week....
 I am sure, this will give some natural selection, at the moment people that just finished a song, and are extremely excited about it (which is very understandable, by the way), Google a bit and find this place and directly put their song up for review, but often without being interested in other peoples projects or this forum. People that want to put their song up right away somewhere, anywhere, probably find a week too long....but their is a good chance that the ones that do subscribe and introduce themselves with the intention to wait a week before posting a song themselves will probably look at the forum during that first week, get a feel for the place and the regular posters, and who knows even respond to other people's posts   ;D ;D ;D

i have difficulty with people just putting a post up without looking at other posts, and not introducing themselves. I must say, once you have been here a while you get a good feeling on the basis of the first post (without any introduction of who they are), they are usually gone within two weeks after the comments on their song are slowing down (and some of them then turn up after half a year when they have another great song finished, and people who are new don't know that the poster only shows up when a new song is finished, so again the song will get two weeks of comments etc..etc...)

just my two eurocents



Michael

  • *
  • Solo Gig
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • Soundcloud
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 04:55:05 PM »
Good thought, DB...
A one week limit before being able to create threads in the review section. Might keep the number of "Hi I'm X and I'd like to give you guys the opportunity to listen to and compliment me on the greatest song ever" - posts down. And everyone who actually wants to get involved would still be welcome.
I don't know anything about forum software and stuff, would a mechanism like this actually be possible to implement into the forum ?
Would be interesting to hear TONE's thoughts on this

jmacdon

  • *
  • Solo Gig
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
  • Give me a lyric and I'll give you a song
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2013, 06:08:55 PM »
Subs of £2 a month are still fine value, given the immense resources this forum provides.

WIP / Final - I think we are maybe barking up the wrong tree here.  We are often reminded by members that reviews and critiques are often about "production techniques" rather than songwriting - so lets have a "songwriting" vs "production" split.  I can guarantee none of my posts would be in the   production section because that is not my interest.  However, I would get much more value from the pure songwriting section.




S.T.C

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
  • American Cars........out now
    • http://oldsongsnew.com/
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2013, 06:46:06 PM »
How about this..a section for songs submitted by members with 6 months or more on here...and the rest just post in the normal reviews forum ....it`s only regulars that see all this as an issue?

As for making a charge...again £2 per month or £12 for 6, then it becomes free.....would possibly weed out a few less serious types ,whilst remaining fair...


montydog

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 2700
  • http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h40/montydog1/Me
    • Reverbnation
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 12:29:37 AM »
I'm for splitting the forum into finished and WIP, one thread per song and more posts per page. I'm very happy to pay a subscription as you've outlined. It's great value for money at twice the price.

Thanks Tone for all the work you put in  :)

habiTat

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1455
    • habiTat songs
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 04:47:51 PM »
Lots of ideas emerging now...

All well thought out, it's good to see so many people care.

One way or another I think most people agree the reviews board is running too fast. I know I've already voted for the WIP board but I agree with John, maybe it should be a 'Work in progress/review the song writing itself' board, regardless of recording quality, panning, eq etc, with the main reviews board re-badged 'Finished song/production review' for those more polished, radio ready songs. That way, any newbies or bi-annual (just finished my new song, what do you think?) people can post straight to the 'finished/production critique' section and the members who genuinely want help and advice/critique on the bare bones of a song can have a (hopefully) slower board for that.


Dutchbeat

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2013, 05:46:11 PM »
that is very ok with me, but i think 90% will post their songs on the unfinished songs board, because, as Boydie also pointed out, it is hard to tell when a song and production are really finished

but certainly worth a try, i think

no one (except for Michael) for a bit higher treshold for being able to place a first song after signing up? I think you could loose the small group of people who only look for forums and websites to promote /spam their music without any intent to give feedback on other people's work

Boydie

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3975
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2013, 06:03:22 PM »
Quote
maybe it should be a 'Work in progress/review the song writing itself' board, regardless of recording quality, panning, eq etc, with the main reviews board re-badged 'Finished song/production review' for those more polished, radio ready songs

I am not sure this additional "restriction" is needed as I would still want to give and receive feedback on the "production side" on a "wip" - ie comments on mix, arrangement, instrumentation, a bit of compression/eq here and there to improve the overall package

Likewise I would not want to put people off posting "finished" songs that are just their own demos (eg recorded on a mobile phone) if this is their "best shot"

If it is a rough sketch that they intend to improve upon then it goes to the wip forum - if it is their "best shot" for where they are in the songwriting journey then it belongs in the finished forum

However, it is natural that there will be a little overlap but I think things will sort themselves out
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

tone

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Forum Former Führer
  • Posts: 3551
  • The People's Democratic Republic of Songwriting
    • Anthony Lane on soundcloud
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2013, 01:02:01 AM »
It's great to see so many replies to this thread. But I am still split as to the best way forward.

Obviously, I want to give you guys (& gals?) what you want (not like that :p ) but also you know my default setting is to avoid too many categories for the reasons already outlines in this - and a few other - threads.

I've already increased the number of topics on each page of the reviews forum, and there's room to increase it further if there's demand.

But Boydie makes a good point. Everyone's idea of a finished song/ production is different.

I think my next step should be to properly research what this forum software is capable of, and see if there's a way to reward those that give most to the forum without dividing the community.
New EP: Straitjacket - Listen here

1st track from my upcoming album -- Click to listen -- Thanks!

Please read the rules before posting in the feedback forums http://bit.l

seriousfun

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1681
    • Allan Kilgour - Original Compositions
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2013, 02:22:20 AM »
This is a very worthwhile discussion.

The main problem as I see it is the huge increase in song postings causing songs to drop of the page too quickly. The only way I can see to change that is to have less posts.

To split the forum into finshed and wips would at best split the posts more or less evely into the two sections effectively allowing song posts to remain on the page twice as long. This has some deffinate merit on this point alone let alone the benefits in being able to better target the type of feedback the poster is wanting. I would be favour of this.

To have a members section would certainly allow longer standing members to have a slower moving forum but it could provide an issue with a lack of reviews for the new posters and therefore dry up our source for new members. And we always need a supply of new members to replace those that leave. Not so sure about this aspect.

Having a stand down period before song posts are possible could be a good way to 'qualify' new members. It would certainly slow down the posts of new members and we would be assured of getting more committed members.

The solution to our problem may require the implementation of more than one change. There are many good ideas coming forward all with their repective pluses and minuses and I am sure once the feedback has finished there will be some clear directions agreed upon. I also wonder wether if members were required to post a higher review count for each song posted wether that would have an impact and help give us a better quality of member.

As for the pay to join section I have reservations about what that would achieve. I am not against paying, I am just wonder what it would achieve.