[Alan Starkie]

I can't help thinking that you'd get more useful information about songs if there was anonymous reviews that only the songwriter could see. Maybe a scoring out of 5 too. Sometimes it's good not to have any type of relationship with the person you're reviewing. Opinions can get 'niced up' when it's someone who might have given generous comments to yourself? It can become awkward. I'm always honest with my opinions but sometimes you can be hovering over the delete key thinking you're being a bit too honest.

Just a thought.

[S.T.C]

Some sites let you say what level of review you want...so for sensitive ones ,they shouldn`t be offended and reviewers should moderate what they some,others might tick for both barrels...and they get what asked for......tit for tat is human nature isn`t it,we should be able to rise above it

Most songs put up for comment on here ,i find don`t require real criticism.....but to some,`not your best work` ruins their day.

[Alan Starkie]

Yeah there are sites like that but I'm referring to the cliqueyness on all sites that are forum-driven. It's always there in varying degrees, like it or not. The longer someone is a regular member of a forum, the less negative comments from other regulars become. Anonymous reviews would completely remove this problem.

[habiTat]

I wonder how many of us actually want it 'both barrels' ?

Sometimes it's nice to share your work with friends and get constructive, (positive where deserved) feedback, rather than just getting panned by a stranger. I understand your point but that kind of honest, anonymous brutality probably wouldn't be very popular, or fuel the community.

Just my 2 pennies

hab..

[S.T.C]

Good points......if someone  said ,i thought it was a load of carp ..cos they knew you didn`t know who said it ....i would be bug..       


I say what i think..regardless of who it is..so peeps know my opinion is honest.

[Kafla]

Ha ha

I aways like to play devils advocate but surely anonymous reviews could fire even more 'tilt for tat' reviews ?

If no one knows who is reviewing the knife could really be stuck in!!!!

Scoring a song out of 5 is a terrible idea in my opinion - how can you score a song ? That would depend on the reviewers ability and taste surely ? God it's getting more like dancing on ice X factor splash by the minute  

Seven

What also would be achieved ?

90% of songs on here I just enjoy listening to - the other 10% are normally posters who really want help and most of all encouragement

Lets highlight the positives in people's music instead of the negatives

And STC you have only posted 2 songs of your own ever on here - I am positive one wasn't your best work  

[Boydie]

Interesting

Here are some of my own thoughts/takes on the points raised

I can't help thinking that you'd get more useful information about songs if there was anonymous reviews...

I think this would only exaggerate the cliqueness and worst traits of human nature as I am sure some would be tempted to be unnecessarily harsh/aggresive if they were protected by anonymity

I think it is a good problem to have with people being too nice to each other!

I do understand what you are saying about the mutual slap on the back or "tit for tat" nature of peer reviewing

It just depends on what you want out of a review

For me the forum is absolutely perfect for getting a general feeling for a song from those that care about songwriting

This is NEVER a true indication of whether a song has "hit potential" as people here tend to be focussed on their own specific genre and preferences - which is a great thing!

I also look out for a few specific names when I post a song for review for specific feedback on specific areas - as you get to know people here you will know whose opinion you respect most on melody, lyrics, production etc.

ALL reviews are helpful but knowing who has given the review has been vital for my development here

that only the songwriter could see

I have received and given many PMs following reviews to either follow up or expand on a review. This has always been especially useful as it has led to more understanding, identified key areas for improvement on a track and has opened the door to collaborating with others

Maybe a scoring out of 5 too

I have often thought about this as well but I can't see any possible benefit and lots of negatives
This would just be a load of numbers from different people with different opinions, tastes etc. so I couldn't really see what benefits I would get

As with all reviews I take them all (good or bad) with a huge pinch of salt - I take on board ALL of the comments and then decide what I like (which does often lead to changes but I must have liked the song quite a bit already to post it for review - unless I am specifically looking for comments on a "work in progress" etc.)

I think this is why I tend to "shy away" from competitions (as well as not having much time)

I don't like the whole idea of voting for "the best" song as we are in such a subjective area

I know it is all a bit of fun and doesn't really mean anything but it is my first though about comps - although the time constraint is the main issue for me at the moment!!!


I do agree with the issues you have bought up though PERSERVERANCE

For me the answer lies in the song poster (OP) being much more explicit about WHY they are posting a song for review and WHAT type of feedback they are looking for

This would then, rightly, shape the review given as I would give a completely different review to someone posting their first song to someone posting a demo they want to submit to publishers

Just some initial thoughts

[flossie]

I agree with boydie.  I think if you state when posting that you want a warts and all review then you are more likely to get that sort of response.  I see some newbies in particular, commenting when putting a song for review 'be gentle with me' or such like.  That's fair enough, when you are starting out helpful advice is definitely more encouraging than 'that's shit don't give up your day job'.

I understand your frustration though.  A very clear post when putting your song up for review should ensure that your song gets the kind of slating attention you would like! (not that you deserve a slating of course 


F
x

[Alan Starkie]

If no one knew who or what had been posted, it would just be a simple completely unbiased opinion. There will, of course, always be those types who get their kicks beating people up from afar in cyberspace but they certainly wouldn't have me in their ranks. My personal reason for being here is to get a picture of which of my songs hit home best for submitting to contacts. This is totally self-serving but I have no problem returning the favour reviewing other people's material and contributing with posts such as this.

[Kafla]

Slightly off beam but I think if you make your songs available for download the number that do get downloaded give you a great indication as to the most popular

And if you want your songs scored Pers then just say  

And I always try to be honest but I personally find the whole 'it's not my cup of tea ' pointless

Some songs on here are sublimely written and recorded but there's no way I would buy or listen again - what would be achieved by me stating this

Not a personal comment just to clarify BTW

[Alan Starkie]

Good points all, kafla, but I think that downloads are too easy an option. It's like pirated song downloads: which is the more indicative of popularity - the illegal downloaded entire discography of a band or the single paid for song?

Excuse my punctuation. That was a tricky paragraph....

[Kafla]

You know a lot of debate on here centres around the 2 main types of writer -

The bedroom hobbyist v the ambitious opportunist

I am very much in the bedroom hobbyist camp ( 2nd double entendre this week  )

If a few people say they love my song it it's like a number 1 to me

I think if you want brutally honest reviews you should just say so - but would you really want that? I may be totally wrong here but you know you strike me as a musician who knows exactly what you want - I don't think you would re-work a song based on  the feedback received here

Anyway peace my friend 

[James Nighthawk]

A few points in no particular order

- The community spirit is of foremost importance to me in this forum. I want to know who said what.

- Manners cost nothing, and anonymity is a huge cause of bad manners on the net. 

- I am sure I am not alone in being able to decipher a person from their use of vocabulary, syntax and other grammatical quirks. Pretty much everyone on this thread I could pick out with the names blanked out. You all have such wonderful character it makes it too easy  So anonymity would be quite pointless.

- Dark chocolate with Scotch Bonnet chilli peppers is tasty at first but a mouth destroyer soon after, and for a good while after eating!

- Should someone WANT to be anonymous, a second account would be easy to throw together. The complete lack of anyone doing this is an indicator of the desires of the forumites.

- The only criticism worth giving and receiving in a community like this is constructive criticism. This is and should remain a place of growth, warmth and care. No good comes from being solely negative.
 
- Snow is annoying. I have a studio to run. Snow, kindly bugger off

JN 

[Alan Starkie]

You know a lot of debate on here centres around the 2 main types of writer -

The bedroom hobbyist v the ambitious opportunist

I am very much in the bedroom hobbyist camp ( 2nd double entendre this week  )

If a few people say they love my song it it's like a number 1 to me

I think if you want brutally honest reviews you should just say so - but would you really want that? I may be totally wrong here but you know you strike me as a musician who knows exactly what you want - I don't think you would re-work a song based on  the feedback received here

Anyway peace my friend 

Probably not but I do take points forward in my thinking of how I approach future songs. The comments are still used in the same way. Maybe a different song, but still used.

JN - I agree. I actually meant that everything would be more useful if anonymous! Not more fun and not very good for the whole 'community' feeling but better for black and white song stats.

A very sterile format but an interesting suggestion I thought.

This doesn't mean that I don't extend a cyber handshake to everyone reading this thread :-)

[tone]

Some interesting opinions here, but I think I agree with the majority.

Personally I want to know who's behind a review of one of my songs, because for me, certain writers on this forum are more worth listening to than others. You can tell after a while who really cares about the craft of songwriting, and who is less obsessed. The opinions of those who care are generally the ones I pay most attention to, because I feel they 'get' what I'm trying to achieve when I write a song.

And of course, then there's the matter of taste to contend with. If I posted "still crazy after all these years" up for review (having conveniently erased it from everyone's memory) I bet there'd still be some people who say "it's a bit moody" or "not my cup of tea".

So what? It's still the greatest song ever written (well, one of) and anyone who really cares about songwriting can hear it straight away.

Which leads back to Kafla's argument about intent. Are you trying to write a brilliant song, or a hit record? Because the two are not often enough found in bed together.

So, I stand by the consensus: it's up to each of you to state clearly what you're looking for in a review. If you want brutal honesty, you'll get it from those who care enough to spend time listening and replying.

Some will just leave the same comments as they do on other threads, sometimes because they don't feel confident about critiquing a song, sometimes because they just want you to know that they heard it and liked/ disliked it - which is valuable in its own right to the writer and the community.