Discussion - Posting on the review board

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tina m

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« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2013, 07:53:39 PM »
well im also fed up with this sort of discussion...so fed up in fact that im not even going to argue particulerly with my friends
i am going to take  abreak from this forum for  a couple of months at least
this is not like a home anymore i cant stand people constently ignoring the rules or not even bothering to read them in the first place...that is just the way i am so i am leaving ..this is not a tantrum but the way things are just gets me realy cross all the time so i dont feel like taking part
theres always just so many new people &  that would be ok if they respescted the place but half of them dont...i want somewhere to hang out with my friends & im happy to make new ones but if there not going to 'join the gang' then i dont need all this stress either
ive put such a lot into this forum so you decide what sort of people do you want here
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Boydie

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« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2013, 07:59:50 PM »
I happen to agree with most posts/points

I am pretty relaxed about whether there are strict rules or an anything goes policy

I happen to really enjoy listening to and reviewing other people's songs (just need more time!!!) so I am not usually bothered

I am also happy with the reviews I get - the forum is great as a general "barometer" for songs and then I look for reviews from a handful of people as I value their opinions - so I get everything I could ever need from the forum, which is why I would be happy to jump through hoops if required

My only "bug bear" is those that turn up every now and again and post their "new single" for review, rather than looking for feedback on the song (it sounds the same but I know what I mean!)

e.g. I still think there should be a separate forum for reviewing final songs (like an NME review of a released single/albums), a separate forum for proper feedback, critique, areas to improve for "first drafts" or works in process - ie the writer is likely to make changes if they accept the feedback

The reviews can then be tailored accordingly

I would love to see a song develop, following feedback, from a work in progress, to a first draft, to a completed song

I have changed all of my songs follow feedback from here but I haven't wanted to re-bump my original post from months ago asking what people think of "the new drums" or a "new middle 8" etc.

If we all did this after each change using the existing format songs will drop down (and off) the page even quicker

I know the idea of splitting the forum down further is never well received and I do not think it is broken as it is - just an observation and contribution to the discussion
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Dutchbeat

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« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2013, 08:03:39 PM »
all points made are valid to me

i agree with Flossie that people not really participating will dropout anyway in the end, often quite quickly

simply because they are in fact not interested in an exchange of ideas with the other songwriters
or in the end nobody responds to their posts anymore
or Little Bill, or a forum member steps in

and on the other hand, it can be annoying to see new people come in once in a while
that just simply don't have that basic feeling of what is decent and reasonable

but i don't think there is anything we can do about that

ah, in stead of typing about it, and getting slow responses


THIS might be a topic where we could have a "live" meeting about  ;D ;D ;D

(oh no, Dutchbeat is going to bring up the chatroom again  :P :P :P)

Yes, forumites, what about a chat meeting in our own chatroom soon, about the rules, direction and future of this forum

that makes a discussion more focused, and i am very happy to chair it ;D ;D  ;D ;D





Dutchbeat

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« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 08:11:54 PM »
ah, and i didn't read all the posts, i replied after James' last post after Flossie's

and the typing took so much time...(well i am dutch, ok  :P :P :P)

that i din't read Tina's and Boydie's replies

just that you know

and i am tired of this discussion too, and i agree with Tina, and i can agree with all that has been said

seriously, shouldn't we take this somewhere else, have a discussion in interaction, but not in these (slow) posts that will be out there

just my two pennies (yes, that is an English expression that i have learned on this forum... ;D i hope i am using it in a correct way)

Paul

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« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 09:06:43 PM »
Like a number of people,  I'm sad to see that this has become a source of unrest once again.  It makes me want to give the reviews section a wide berth!  :(

habiTat

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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 09:39:30 PM »
I wonder if this 'unrest' stems slightly from the fact that people are naturally cliquey. Like STC said earlier, it's the playground, people can't help it, it just is.

I find that I'm naturally drawn to reviewing songs by forum regulars and 'friends', when I see that DB or Tina or Boydie etc has posted something, I'll make time to listen and review because I respect what they've said in the past, and I like to hear how they are progressing and improving. When the board fills with songs by unknown names, I sometimes find it hard to muster the enthusiasm to spend the time listening and reviewing. Likewise, that enthusiasm to embrace new blood is greater diminished by those minority 'great song bro' replies.

Unless we start a closed forum for invited members only (which would get quite stale quite quickly) we need to make the effort to embrace the newbies and gently guide them in the ways of the community. More rules wont help, artists don't like rules. This is an open forum and it's the responsibility of each of us who like it and care about it, to ensure it stays as good as it is.

*gets off soapbox*

@Tina
Please don't leave, you are a really important member, we value your views and enjoy your humour. Your James Bond comp was awesome and the way you got everyone involved was inspired. Essex blood is pretty sparse in these parts..  :D

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 09:53:01 PM »
All good points

@tina, don't be going anywhere Lady, please! You bring an edge to the board that makes me smile  ;D

@everyone
I only intended this thread as a DISCUSSION.

I want to clarify I wasn't moaning, I tried to make that clear in the first post!

I wanted to get it in the open because as Hab' and others have mentioned, if the board divides we ALL lose out.

An open polite discussion about how things stands was my suggestion to avoid problems, no cause them

Apologies if I misfired  :'( :'(
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tina m

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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 11:07:46 PM »
james  i felt this way before you started this thread ok!
& as for people who say the selfish ones disapear quick.... look at this fisherman guy & beady roller & aunt acid ..theres just loads of them who just keep on coming back
& as for the forum wises up to who abuses it i say that is nonsense.....all the new & infrequent posters arent here enuff to know & just review anybody & give these people the attention they crave

anyway im not the first big contributer  to leave over this if you look back& it realy is up to you all to decide what sort of person you want here
im sad but im leaving ok

love to all

tina
xx

ps ive got FAWM all thru febraury & then i will see how i feel again
Tell me Im wonderful & I ll be nice to you :)

jmacdon

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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2013, 11:24:01 PM »

& as for people who say the selfish ones disapear quick.... look at this fisherman guy & beady roller & aunt acid ..theres just loads of them who just keep on coming back



Wow.  They keep on coming back because they recognise this forum as one that provides truly independent and constructive feedback.  This forum is not broke, so let's not all rush to fix it :-)

This forum works well because the majority of users are fair and honourable.  Let's not get too upset about someone who posts 16 tracks for review yet only posts 3 reviews.  Statistically, that is to be expected. 

As for the "clique" element.... i'm more likely to review songs from (i) new posters; and (ii) posters who have posted a brilliant song :-))))


S.T.C

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« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 10:54:30 AM »
I agree...JC...was thinking about this the other night....and it struck me...that without passers-by it would feel pretty slow on here.....

lets be honest here.....a lot of the regulars, aren`t that regular...they can even disappear for a couple of months....or for ever in some cases, and so the songs posted for review slows right down.

Schavuitje

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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2013, 03:04:59 PM »
Eyup  ;D
There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.

Dutchbeat

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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2013, 10:21:54 PM »
and an Eyup from me too
whatever that may mean  ;D ;D

sounds good to me

The Corsair

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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2013, 06:26:10 PM »
So I've spent a good portion of the last few months with internet troubles. That combined with my continuing lack of a band, novel that I'm working on and full-time summer job I have only popped my head in every couple of days without being able to comment. I've mostly paid attention to the lyrics board when I have logged on by the way.

What I've noticed is it's a string of Johnny Come Lately-s down there. I may be getting that wrong given that I only ever see a 'slice of life' from that board. Anyway, it raises the question for me of 'Would I rather there was no-one contributing anything down there and the more regular lyricists were stuck without getting reviews?'
I think, in all honesty, having those passers-by is actually kind of alright because they do still review a few others. Admittedly they aren't always the best reviews and they tend to be in either the 'I'll review you because you reviewed me' category or the 'I will review three people and you're not getting a review because I've done my three' category.

Basically, I think the sort of behaviour you guys are against in the reviews board (Review a bunch just so I can get mine reviewed, the leave) is a lot of what keeps the lyrics board rolling along...
Defective Elector

Ramshackles

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« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 11:08:38 AM »
This is a tricky one for me...
In the past few months I've become something of a chronic lurker on this forum. (Striking out on my own has made me super busy - it's either that or fail :D )
I know most of what goes on and even spend a fair bit of time on the reviews forum for someone that hasn't posted anything there for a while. I chip in on interesting discussions and of course if a mod is necessary. Which most of the time, it isn't, really.

I don't think these threads help anything on the whole.
It often seems like older members having a bit of a grumble cos "passers-by" or those deemed to be poor members are distracting attention from their songs.

I disagree with the 2 types of members. Not only because I don't think I fit into either category, but because I think many others don't either. It's a fairly sweeping generalisation.

Most replies seem to have forgotten the original post, which was not yet another jab at those just posting songs and not contributing, but an encouragement to review equally and not become "cliquey".
There is a point there. Go to the front page of the reviews sections and note which songs have the most 2 or more pages of replies....

On the other hand, there is no way to avoid it. Passer-bys are just that. They drop off a song and often dont even bother to post a follow up reply when they get a bunch of reviews. Reviewers like feedback on their reviews aswell (especially if they are doing what a review should and offer up constructive criticism/starting a discussion). It's only natural that inactive posters are going to receive inactivity.

Looking at the other side of the story...it has been suggested that newcomers should have to be more active before they post a song. This has been taken to the point where you are kind of enforcing it yourself - with this "cliquey" thing...

So this is forcing newcomers to "break" into the clique. If they are actively reviewing other peoples songs, you might still not post on their song because they are "not in the group". Even worse, if you review their song cause they reviewed yours, isn't that just promoting the "You pat my back, I'll pat yours" mentality that you should equally hate?

They could be active in other parts of the forum...but I fear that at times I might be the only one that notices it :).
The majority of discussions that get large on other parts of the forum seems to be ones like these.
I don't blame newcomers for not wanting to join in...

There are extremely interesting discussions in other parts of the forum which just seem to come to a stop when they are just getting going. Instead of moaning about the reviews forum, how about browsing a few of these interesting topics? (One of which is a first time poster - perhaps they read this discussion, got to scared to post in the reviews forum, but then suffered having almost no-one reply anyway?) :
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/the-future-for-daws-touch-screen-mixing/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/how-do-you-lay-down-your-songs/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/building-a-recording-space-is-it-worth-it/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-writing-process/lyrics-getting-them-to-scan-well/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-bar/breaking-through/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-bar/my-blog-music-and-production-based-musings-)/
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/the-writing-process/all-these-damn-computers-(or-electronics-and-your-music)/
 
It is not surprising that these discussions never complain about the "contributions" or "writing process" sub forums although there are plenty of one-time posters/advertisers or people trying to promote themselves who post there....

Now I know you can just throw this right back at me, go ahead.
I think the reviews forum does quite well.  The only thing these threads seem to achieve is tinam quitting  :P

tina m

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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 10:20:16 PM »
well ramshackles i cant help the way i am & i am a family person ...when you start a family maybe you will understand me better
i just popped back to see if anyone else felt the same as me & plainly no one does so ive eiether got it all wrong or i just dont belong here but looking at the reviews section again its full of first time posters plugging there song & not reading the rules & not joining in the spirit of things here ...but its also full of members saying how wonderful they are & just encoraging there bad behaviour
i just want somewhere where i feel at home & know evryone & yes new people can come in as long as they respect my/our house
i just dont want this constant abuse of the forum i love ...i feel if you love something you try to protect it
but ive got it all wrong obvuiously so i wont bother you all again
Tell me Im wonderful & I ll be nice to you :)