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DAW - grasping the concept

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habiTat

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« on: October 18, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »
I've decided to start a new thread on this because I'm struggling to get my head around the whole concept of how my DAW works. I figure it can't just be me who struggles with this and I know some of you guys are dab hands at all this. I thought it'd be good to have all this here as a reference eventually to help others, in my current position.

The quick background for me is that I've been using the free software Audacity. It is a basic sound file, multitrack editor with no provision for MIDI, it has no busses, sends or master tracks, just individual tracks which you work on, add effects to, then mix and render into one track. While this is good, easy to use, and free, it is limited and I feel like it's now holding me back. I also have a proper DAW in Cakewalk Sonar LE and coming from the simplicity of Audacity I'm finding it difficult to work out whats what, why things are there, and what they do.

Based on the fact that by the sound of it, most proper DAW's are similar, what I'm after really is this..

A simple guide/explanation of the process, from recording to final export.

Boydie has been an absolute star explaining the basics of MIDI to me and from what I can make out so far, the concept of MIDI and my DAW is as follows..

                                                          (MIDI track)
                                                          --into--
                          Recording        or       (SYNTH track)
                                          --into--
                                      (AUDIO track)
                                          --into--
                             (BUS)          or         (MASTER)
                            --into--
                           (MASTER)
                                        --export to--
                                       WAV      or        MP3

the AUDIO track can either be sent straight to the MASTER, or to a BUS (a bus, I think, is a place for groups of tracks to go, so reverb etc. can be added)

If there is a BUS, this then gets sent to the MASTER

Is this right? I understand that the different DAW's will work slightly differently but the basic concept should be the same...right?  ???

hab..


Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2012, 06:26:41 PM »
The diagram is a little confusing to follow but yes, you are right

Record (or import) audio on to a track

The audio from this track can then go straight to the "Master Bus" referred to as just "The Master"

The master is then sent to the output - usually your audio interface

Tracks can also go to Busses (or sub-busses) to group tracks together

This is done for 2 reasons

1 - it can be easier to mix using busses - e.g. you can mix your individual drums into a bus

When it comes to mixing you can use the bus to change the level of all of the drums at once

2 - you can use the same fx processing on a group of tracks that are sent to the bus - e.g. compressing a number of different backing vocal tracks to "glue" them together

You can also send one bus to another bus

Once you "get" the routing it can make life a lot easier

Although DAWs are similar in principle they differ widely in how they work

"Driving the desk", mixing and production needs to be learnt in exactly the same way you wouldn't be able to pick up a guitar and play it the first time

I will dig out some good resources but it really is worth putting in the time to learning your DAW of choice

The skills are definitely transferable but each DAW has its own quirks and limitations
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

habiTat

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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2012, 07:34:31 PM »
The diagram is a little confusing to follow but yes, you are right



Yeah, diagram drawing is tricky on the forum.. :D

Ok cool, thanks for that Boydie, that's what I was after, confirmation of the process. ;D ;D

One thing which has confused me though is why you would export the master to the audio interface. I thought that was for plugging instruments IN and getting the music ON to the DAW... ???

Again, I think I've missed something   :-\

Boydie

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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2012, 08:35:14 PM »
Quote
One thing which has confused me though is why you would export the master to the audio interface. I thought that was for plugging instruments IN and getting the music ON to the DAW...

Again, I think I've missed something
   

To get the sound OUT of your computer  ;)

You would usually plug your instrument into your Audio Interface

The audio interface then turns the "analogue" sound of your voice, guitar etc. into a "digital" signal (lots of 1s and 0s) that the computer understands

It does this using A/D converters (analogue to digital)

This digital signal is then fed into the tracks of your DAW - when you select the "INPUT" on the track you should see your Audio Interface as an input option

You then work your magic and create something amazing using the routing options described above

It is good practice to finally route everything, either directly or via other busses, to a MASTER BUS (the "Master")

This is so that you can use the Master's meter to check the level of your mix - as a rule you never want the Master meter to go above 0db

If you intend on having your mix "mastered" you probably want to be aiming for your master level to not go above -6db to leave some "headroom" for the person mastering to work their magic to bring it up to 0db

If you are going to have a go at mastering yourself, or apply fx you want to go across the whole mix, the MASTER bus gives you the opportunity to this

Finally (and finally getting to your question!) the MASTER Bus OUTPUT will be set to your Audio Interface so that the digital signal in your computer can be converted into analogue sound that you can hear (via the D/A Converters - Digital to Analogue) via speakers or headphones connected to your Audio Interface

I hope this helps clarify the "journey" and answers your question


I would HIGHLY recommend that you treat yourself and get this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Mastering-Leonard-Recording-Method/dp/1423430530/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350588481&sr=8-1

It will answer ALL of your questions about mixing, panning, fx, busses and also has some very specific tips about mixing vocals, guitars, drums etc. etc. including where to pan them, what eq to apply etc.

It really is very comprehensive

The only criticism is that the book could be considered a little "old skool" but I found this useful in understanding the concepts without getting bogged down in how a particular DAW works

Use the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon to have a look at the Contents and some of the pages and you will get a good feel for what is in there

There is only 1 left so get in quick if you want it...
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

habiTat

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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2012, 08:51:08 PM »

Finally (and finally getting to your question!) the MASTER Bus OUTPUT will be set to your Audio Interface so that the digital signal in your computer can be converted into analogue sound that you can hear (via the D/A Converters - Digital to Analogue) via speakers or headphones connected to your Audio Interface



Cool, cheers Boydie, I've put it on the wish list, we got some vouchers somewhere :D

And the audio interface....Duh, yep, I get that now.. :P :P  Even in Audacity I set the output to my MIC/Audio interface USB thingy so I can hear it back through that. Direct monitoring and all that... GOT IT  ;D ;D ;D

Thanks, you're a star  :)

Ramshackles

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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2012, 09:33:07 AM »
Terminology is confusing here and I think the function of the audio interface is a little confused to you Habitat.

An audio interface is basically a soundcard. It turns digital signals into analogue so that your speakers will work  - like boydie said. Yeah - your computer already has a soundcard. But the audio interfaces you use in recording are generally more special than the bog standard soundcard on your pc.

At the very least, they will offer better sample rates and bit depths (along with more complicated things like clocking, jitter protection etc) and at least 1 line input and 1 stereo (or 2 mono) line outputs - which would be connected to your speakers.

The better ones offer mic preamps so you can directly plug a mic in (either by plugging into a special 'mic input' or plugging into whatever input and pressing a 'mic' select switch).
Of course in your case habitat, as you have a preamp actually on your mic, you only need to plug into the line input on your interface.

Interfaces can also offer numerous inputs and outputs. I have an interface (actually 2 daisy chained together) that has 16 line inputs and outputs and 2 MIDI in/out.

As you are using a different audio interface to your pc, you generally have to install a new driver and maybe even change the audio settings in your control panel

This is where it can get complicated in your DAW.
Your DAW generally leaves it up to you to configure what driver is being used for audio, and where all the inputs & outputs on your interface are going.

In Cubase this is called setting up 'buses'. Confusing terminology here. This is not buses in the sense you have just used them (i.e. 'groups'), but buses meaning connections between your interface and your daw. In most DAWs this is usually what the term 'bus' means. It means it exactly in the sense it is meant in computing (i.e it 'buses' data between systems).

I have to tell Cubase that I want 16 mono inputs and link each of these inputs to an input on my interface. The same for outputs.
Of course I can say I want 1 stereo output and this is linked to 2 channels on my interface. This would go to the speakers. If I have 2 pairs of speakers, I might setup 2 stereo outputs.

Then on each track I create in my DAW, I tell it where the input is coming from (which of the buses I have just setup) and where the track is output too (is it output to stereo out 1, stereo out 2 or have I added a group track and output it there? Or, if the track is a MIDI track, I might be taking the input from the MIDI in and outputting to a VST instrument)

Now, I've explained it very generally in terms of Cubase, but it is basically the same for most DAWs I believe (at least Pro Tools and Reaper require similar things, so I guess Sonar will aswell).



So basically audio tracks can be sent anywhere you want, as long as you have set up the places to send them :P


I'll give some examples of 2 of my workflows:
My DAW is always setup so that all the channels on my interface can be addressed, but whether they are addressed in pairs (i.e. stereo) or singley (mono) changes - and this is something that needs to be set up at the 'bus' level.
The basic track setup in my DAW is almost always the same
Tracks 1-n are all the basic tracks in the song. If I am recording these will take their inputs from channels 1-16 on my audio interface (sometimes just using 1 or 2  channels if everything is overdub).

I also setup 8 group tracks. The function of these changes depending on what I am doing. I'll just talk about mixing here:

1: Working 'in the box' but with external effects.
All the tracks are sent to one of the 8 group tracks. These might be something like:
Drums
Percussion
Guitars
Vocals
Backing Vocals
Keys_1
Keys_2
Other/FX

Then I setup another group track that I call 'Master'. All the 8 group tracks are then sent to this 'Master Group'. I then send the Master Group to stereo out 1, 2 or 3 depending on which monitoring system I want to listen on. (Note that this 'Master Group' wouldnt be necessary if I had a control room system - like when Im using a mixing desk).

I also have to setup each of my external effects in Cubase (each connected to remaining inputs and ouputs on my interface) but I wont go into that here...(it's not so tricky as I dont have that many external units!)

I also setup a couple of FX tracks for plugins that I will use as send effects.

I use effects either on individual tracks (usually as inserts) or group tracks (usually as send effects...but of course, there are exceptions to everything)


So thats it, here is a crappy diagram:

 Track >> Group Track >> Master Group Track >> Stereo Out
    |        |                 |             |
 Insert    ^<< Send << v     Master Effects


Ok that was long...I was going to then explain with a mixing desk, but I think I'll leave it!

Of course, it's a generalisation.
Here are some things I do sometimes that I haven't mentioned:

Inserts and sends where ever you want: I put insert and send effects in 2 specific places on the diagram. But in truth I use them as and when needed with no restrictions.

Using Group Tracks as 'Sends': Setup a group track and put an effect on it (e.g. compression). Set the output of the group track to nothing.
Send a little bit of whatever track to this group track. Often I setup another (or even another again) group track with another effect and send the first group track to this group track and so on...So I have a chain of sends going on. A good thing to do is put a seperate compressor on each group track and send it all to each other. This is 'multibus compression' (back to using 'bus' as 'group' here...argh!), which is a technique used by many famous engineers (although usually they do it on a mixer).

The main thing to take away from this is that you can setup any number of interesting/crazy/fantastic signal processing chains that can be blended together in a variety of ways.

Of course, you can spend hours doing that and you should remember that if there is a simple way to get what you want, do that!

habiTat

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2012, 01:24:45 PM »
Terminology is confusing here and I think the function of the audio interface is a little confused to you Habitat.

An audio interface is basically a soundcard. It turns digital signals into analogue so that your speakers will work  - like boydie said. Yeah - your computer already has a soundcard. But the audio interfaces you use in recording are generally more special than the bog standard soundcard on your pc.

At the very least, they will offer better sample rates and bit depths (along with more complicated things like clocking, jitter protection etc) and at least 1 line input and 1 stereo (or 2 mono) line outputs - which would be connected to your speakers.

The better ones offer mic preamps so you can directly plug a mic in (either by plugging into a special 'mic input' or plugging into whatever input and pressing a 'mic' select switch).
Of course in your case habitat, as you have a preamp actually on your mic, you only need to plug into the line input on your interface.

Interfaces can also offer numerous inputs and outputs. I have an interface (actually 2 daisy chained together) that has 16 line inputs and outputs and 2 MIDI in/out.

As you are using a different audio interface to your pc, you generally have to install a new driver and maybe even change the audio settings in your control panel

This is where it can get complicated in your DAW.
Your DAW generally leaves it up to you to configure what driver is being used for audio, and where all the inputs & outputs on your interface are going.

In Cubase this is called setting up 'buses'. Confusing terminology here. This is not buses in the sense you have just used them (i.e. 'groups'), but buses meaning connections between your interface and your daw. In most DAWs this is usually what the term 'bus' means. It means it exactly in the sense it is meant in computing (i.e it 'buses' data between systems).

I have to tell Cubase that I want 16 mono inputs and link each of these inputs to an input on my interface. The same for outputs.
Of course I can say I want 1 stereo output and this is linked to 2 channels on my interface. This would go to the speakers. If I have 2 pairs of speakers, I might setup 2 stereo outputs.

Then on each track I create in my DAW, I tell it where the input is coming from (which of the buses I have just setup) and where the track is output too (is it output to stereo out 1, stereo out 2 or have I added a group track and output it there? Or, if the track is a MIDI track, I might be taking the input from the MIDI in and outputting to a VST instrument)

Now, I've explained it very generally in terms of Cubase, but it is basically the same for most DAWs I believe (at least Pro Tools and Reaper require similar things, so I guess Sonar will aswell).



So basically audio tracks can be sent anywhere you want, as long as you have set up the places to send them :P


I'll give some examples of 2 of my workflows:
My DAW is always setup so that all the channels on my interface can be addressed, but whether they are addressed in pairs (i.e. stereo) or singley (mono) changes - and this is something that needs to be set up at the 'bus' level.
The basic track setup in my DAW is almost always the same
Tracks 1-n are all the basic tracks in the song. If I am recording these will take their inputs from channels 1-16 on my audio interface (sometimes just using 1 or 2  channels if everything is overdub).

I also setup 8 group tracks. The function of these changes depending on what I am doing. I'll just talk about mixing here:

1: Working 'in the box' but with external effects.
All the tracks are sent to one of the 8 group tracks. These might be something like:
Drums
Percussion
Guitars
Vocals
Backing Vocals
Keys_1
Keys_2
Other/FX

Then I setup another group track that I call 'Master'. All the 8 group tracks are then sent to this 'Master Group'. I then send the Master Group to stereo out 1, 2 or 3 depending on which monitoring system I want to listen on. (Note that this 'Master Group' wouldnt be necessary if I had a control room system - like when Im using a mixing desk).

I also have to setup each of my external effects in Cubase (each connected to remaining inputs and ouputs on my interface) but I wont go into that here...(it's not so tricky as I dont have that many external units!)

I also setup a couple of FX tracks for plugins that I will use as send effects.

I use effects either on individual tracks (usually as inserts) or group tracks (usually as send effects...but of course, there are exceptions to everything)


So thats it, here is a crappy diagram:

 Track >> Group Track >> Master Group Track >> Stereo Out
    |        |                 |             |
 Insert    ^<< Send << v     Master Effects


Ok that was long...I was going to then explain with a mixing desk, but I think I'll leave it!

Of course, it's a generalisation.
Here are some things I do sometimes that I haven't mentioned:

Inserts and sends where ever you want: I put insert and send effects in 2 specific places on the diagram. But in truth I use them as and when needed with no restrictions.

Using Group Tracks as 'Sends': Setup a group track and put an effect on it (e.g. compression). Set the output of the group track to nothing.
Send a little bit of whatever track to this group track. Often I setup another (or even another again) group track with another effect and send the first group track to this group track and so on...So I have a chain of sends going on. A good thing to do is put a seperate compressor on each group track and send it all to each other. This is 'multibus compression' (back to using 'bus' as 'group' here...argh!), which is a technique used by many famous engineers (although usually they do it on a mixer).

The main thing to take away from this is that you can setup any number of interesting/crazy/fantastic signal processing chains that can be blended together in a variety of ways.

Of course, you can spend hours doing that and you should remember that if there is a simple way to get what you want, do that!

 ??? ???  Thanks Ram  :)

I'm gonna print that out, so much info and a lot of it is stepping ahead of where I am. Thanks so much for all this  :) :) :)


I would HIGHLY recommend that you treat yourself and get this book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Mastering-Leonard-Recording-Method/dp/1423430530/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350588481&sr=8-1

It will answer ALL of your questions about mixing, panning, fx, busses and also has some very specific tips about mixing vocals, guitars, drums etc. etc. including where to pan them, what eq to apply etc.

It really is very comprehensive

The only criticism is that the book could be considered a little "old skool" but I found this useful in understanding the concepts without getting bogged down in how a particular DAW works

Use the "Look Inside" feature on Amazon to have a look at the Contents and some of the pages and you will get a good feel for what is in there

There is only 1 left so get in quick if you want it...

My other half just got it for me on Play.com, we had a voucher.. ;D

Cheers Boydie

Boydie

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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2012, 01:33:55 PM »
Quote
My other half just got it for me on Play.com, we had a voucher..


That is great news!

You will REALLY enjoy it

You can read it through once to get the general priniciples in your head and then you can refer back and use it as a reference book for each stage of the process

It contains plenty of practical tips & tricks for each instrument
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic