[Ramshackles]

Just to add, I've just found this, does it look right?
http://www.propellerheads.se/substance/record-u/img/part4/Fig-12-stereo-mix-4-GOOD.jpg

I'm certainly no expert, but this looks very weird to me... you wouldn't want the kick and the snare panned so far to one side - in fact I'd always go with kick, snare and bass more or less exactly in the middle of the stereo field.

Ah ok, so there is no 'one size fits all' approach then..?

Where generally would you guys normally put each track in this type of semicircle diagram?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm desperate to improve and I'm hoping all this will be able to help others like me as well  

Everything goes, but I, and many people, generally keep Kick drum, Bass and lead vocals in the centre.
Everything else around it...

[Boydie]

I love these discussions

There are "rules" but itis fine to break the rules to achieve a desired effect or suit a particular track

My personal approach is to learn the rules so that you can break them 

Bass guitar or synth bass - in the centre, bass is pretty much non-directional so put is dead centre

Lead vocals - dead centre. The lead vocal should be the main focus of the track so put it "front and centre"

Drums - imagine you are looking at a real kit on stage

Kick - centre

Snare - slightly to the right - around 12.30 / 1 o clock on the semi circle

Hi hats - a little futher to the right but not too wide

Ride - over to the left - as much left as the hats are right can sound good

Floor tom - slightly left, perhaps 10 o clock

Toms - pan them from the floor tom going right as they go up so when you roll around the toms there is some movement in the stereo field

Cymbals - you can get away with panning these a bit wider than normal to get a bit of stereo spread. I like to have at least one on each side

Percussion - you can go a bit more wild with panning percussion but just be careful to maintain a "balance" to the track

Experiment and have fun depending on the track but I hope this will give you a starting point!

[habiTat]

Cool thanks Boydie, you and Ram are fonts of knowledge.

I've started drawing up a simple diagram which will make it easier for me and others to follow. I can't work out how to insert the actual picture on to the forum but here is a link to it...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86336083/Stereo%20field.png

I'd like to add to it, especially with regard vocal harmonies and guitar solos. Any suggestions?  Once it's finished I'll try to find a way to make it easier for others to see. I understand that there can never be a one size fits all approach but, for people starting out in this area it may make it more simple to understand. Just the process of doing the diagram and re-reading what you've told me is helping me to understand it.

hab..

[Boydie]

You are obviously a "visual" person  

Seeing the diagram the drums look a little "wide" but you have definitely got the concept

I think having the drums a little "tighter" would give a more natural sound

Perhaps putting the cymbals at 10 and 2 in the mix would provide enough width, bringing everything else in a little tighter in-between

I would say that from here you really are in the realms of doing what is best for the individual track

Panning is important but the stereo image you provide for the listener is much more important

Panning only deals with "left & right" - when you imagine (and visualise) your stereo image you need to think in 3 dimensions

Left & right - controlled with the pan control

Up & Down - can be a function of EQ and the natural tone of an intrument - e.g. a bass guitar will sound low in the mix, whereas a triangle will sound high - both tonally and physically

There are other more advanced tricks to create the impression of up and down but I wouldn't worry about these yet

Front & Back - Level and reverb are your friends here if you want to bring something forward or push it back in the mix


When you have recorded all of the intruments for your track I think you would be best to visualise and perhaps even draw how you want the mix to sound

Eg I want the drums coming from the middle, a guitar over there, another guitar over there, the keys coming in from over there, some bird song floating on top of the mix, a rumble sound effect down below, the vocals in the middle, a trio of backing vocalists off to the left behind the lead vocalist, a horn section standing to the right etc.

You can then try to turn your vision into a sonic spread

If a mix looks clear and uncluttered on paper there is a good chance this will translate into a good aural mix

Also, think about "making space" for instruments that are the same, or similar, registers/tones

e.g. keys and guitars need to be separated to maintain a clear and "non muddy" mix

This separation is usually achieved through giving them different positions in the mix using the pan control and also making space for each other by treating them differently with EQ


You really should try to get hold of the book I recommended - it will answer ALL of your questions and it does exactly what you are trying to produce for yourself - with clear and detailed explanations, videos and audio examples of everything

It also talks a lot about visualising the mix and drawing it out so I think this visual approach may suit you

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Mastering-Leonard-Recording-Method/dp/1423430530/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1350597463&sr=8-6#reader_1423430530

I promise you it will be the best £16.14 you have ever spent!!!

[habiTat]

You are obviously a "visual" person 

Seeing the diagram the drums look a little "wide" but you have definitely got the concept

I think having the drums a little "tighter" would give a more natural sound

Perhaps putting the cymbals at 10 and 2 in the mix would provide enough width, bringing everything else in a little tighter in-between

I would say that from here you really are in the realms of doing what is best for the individual track

Panning is important but the stereo image you provide for the listener is much more important

Panning only deals with "left & right" - when you imagine (and visualise) your stereo image you need to think in 3 dimensions

Left & right - controlled with the pan control

Up & Down - can be a function of EQ and the natural tone of an intrument - e.g. a bass guitar will sound low in the mix, whereas a triangle will sound high - both tonally and physically

There are other more advanced tricks to create the impression of up and down but I wouldn't worry about these yet

Front & Back - Level and reverb are your friends here if you want to bring something forward or push it back in the mix


When you have recorded all of the intruments for your track I think you would be best to visualise and perhaps even draw how you want the mix to sound

Eg I want the drums coming from the middle, a guitar over there, another guitar over there, the keys coming in from over there, some bird song floating on top of the mix, a rumble sound effect down below, the vocals in the middle, a trio of backing vocalists off to the left behind the lead vocalist, a horn section standing to the right etc.

You can then try to turn your vision into a sonic spread

If a mix looks clear and uncluttered on paper there is a good chance this will translate into a good aural mix

Also, think about "making space" for instruments that are the same, or similar, registers/tones

e.g. keys and guitars need to be separated to maintain a clear and "non muddy" mix

This separation is usually achieved through giving them different positions in the mix using the pan control and also making space for each other by treating them differently with EQ


You really should try to get hold of the book I recommended - it will answer ALL of your questions and it does exactly what you are trying to produce for yourself - with clear and detailed explanations, videos and audio examples of everything

It also talks a lot about visualising the mix and drawing it out so I think this visual approach may suit you

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mixing-Mastering-Leonard-Recording-Method/dp/1423430530/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1350597463&sr=8-6#reader_1423430530

I promise you it will be the best £16.14 you have ever spent!!!

I think I am a very visual person, I always plan things out with drawings and sketches so this makes perfect sense now you've pointed it out 

Excellent advice Boydie, your explanation of 'up and down' in the mix using eq has filled a big gap in my understanding.

The book is on it's way

Thankyou