[habiTat]

I have been working away trying to make my songs sound better, fuller and more 'at the front'. If I listen to a pro recording, especially on headphones, it's like the artist is singing into my ear (almost IN my actual head), ie. very close up. How do I achieve this at home? Is it something to do with the stereo field? My recordings generally sound quite distant in comparison. I have tried maximisers and compression and even shifting the left vocal and right vocal timings apart slightly but although it helps, it can seem to distort and damage the quality and I still don't get that crisp, clean 'up front' sound.

I don't really think I understand fully what the stereo field is. In my DAW, if I'm using stereo tracks I can pan left or right and it makes left or right louder, I get that. But is there more to it than that? Is it something more? Or just the volume of each track, left relative to right?

Should I be consciously positioning each track in different areas within this mystical field to achieve a fuller, more professional sound?

In simple terms, what is it and how does it work?

hab.

[Ramshackles]

Like most things, there is no simple answer.


It is a mixture of a number things:

First off, a good raw recording. If there is unwanted ambience, unruly proximity effect in the raw recording, there is nothing you can do in the mix to 'fix' it. You may be able to polish it some what but you can't bring out what is not there.

The correct use of compression, EQ and reverb is what is needed. Reverb is the place where amateur mixes most often fall down...

[Boydie]

I am going to take a stab and guess that this is a symptom of recording your vocal whilst playing the guitar at the same time

To get an "intimate" vocal you really need to get "up close and personal" with the mic

e.g for the style you usually perform I would be expecting you to be within 6inches or so to the mic - ideally with a pop filter inbetween

It can usually be difficult to capture this consistently whilst playing guitar at the same time


Here are a few key concepts at their simplest - RAM is spot on when he says it is a combination of many factors but to make some very wide generalisations...

The STEREO field is an imaginary semi-circle going from your left ear, in front of you, and then to your right ear

You use the PAN control within your DAW to place your MONO tracks somewhere in this stereo field

STEREO tracks can be tricky as a lot depends on how it was originally recorded so a simple "PAN" control may not have the expected effect - i.e. a STEREO track already contains a mix of 2 mono tracks (a left and right channel) so panning a STEREO track will not behave in the same way as a mono track as it may already be panned within the STEREO track itself!

e.g. I could email you a STEREO track of me playing guitar and singing - I may have chosen to pan my guitar to the left and my vocal to the right when I create the STEREO track

If you then try to pan this STEREO track in your project it will not work as you expect as it is already "skewed"

This is why it is always best to work in MONO tracks when collaborating - i.e. sending each other MONO Tracks - if you have a STEREO track treat it as 2 MONO tracks panned hard left and right

REVERB can be used to control the distance from the listener

e.g. less reverb = more "up front" and more reverb pushes things backwards

It is also possible to get some pseudo "up and down" vertical depth by using high eq to "raise" sounds and low eq to lower sound - although this is much more subtle


The equipment is also really important before you even get to compressors etc.

The mic and pre-amps are critical to get that "professional" sound

A large condenser mic would be a good bet for your vocal

You could look in to a reflection filter but they are quite expensive so I am not convinced they offer a good "bang for buck" - although to be fair I have never used one

http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/sE-Electronics-Reflexion-Filter-Pro-Portable-Vocal-Booth/6L8

Just a few "off the top of my head" thoughts - hope this helps

[Ramshackles]

Just jumping in with a reply to the above:

Preamps - not that critical. If ever there was a thing NOT to spend your money it is that. If you already own a £1000 mic and a beautiful room (in an acoustic sense) then it becomes quite critical.

In a cheap setup, you can probably heara difference between preamps but it wont change much.

The further you get away from the source, the less critical the component.

First you have the musician. If they play sh*t, you record sh*t. Then you have the actually room they are playing in. If they are playing in a subway - hey its gonna sound like they are playing in a frikkin subway.
Next comes the microphone and especially mic placement.

Then the preamp and finally your interface!

If you want to improve recordings, start by doing things to control your room acoustics...

[Boydie]

I completely agree about the pre amps RAM, although I included them in the "list" for completeness

I am not even convinced the room acoustics thing is "vital" for home recording vocals when you are "up close & personal" with the mic - although I have not really experimented with this so I will take your advice here

I didn't mention performance because HABITAT is awesome!!

I think the mic and mic placement is the main issue here so a little more info on HABITAT's mic and usual setup would be useful...

[habiTat]

I didn't mention performance because HABITAT is awesome!!

I think the mic and mic placement is the main issue here so a little more info on HABITAT's mic and usual setup would be useful...

Aww shucks..   thanks Boydie that's very kind.

The mic I'm using is a Samson G track usb condenser mic. I have actually had a thread on here about adding a second mic for the guitar and I think I've sorted it. The second mic is only a cheap little condenser but i'm hoping it'll be ok to give me a separate guitar track to work with. I haven't had a chance to try it all out yet though.

Excellent advice on the stereo field though, thanks for that. I'll be setting the daw to mono now for sure. My next proper recording effort will be my first real go with Sonar and the whole midi thing. Again, thanks also for your help with that.

[seriousfun]

Hey bud,

I had a listen to a few of your recordings and I didnt find your vocal sat to far back, a tad maybe but overall I thought the sound wasnt as bad as you made out. One of the prime things that make vocals or any instrument for that matter sit back in the mix is the amount of reverb placed on them. Again I thought your's sounded pretty well right.

Another factor is panning. I normally try to have only the bass and the vocals panned to the center. This way the vocals are not competing with anything else. As for pre-amps, um with all due respect, I think a quality preamp makes a big dif, but the biggest difference is in the recording process itself. I would recomend recording the guiar and the vocals seperately. Some drum loops first if you use em and then the guitar ( with a click track if no drums) then record the vocals. This way you can get a good clean recording with no bleed from guitar to push it back in the mix. When you put the reverb in if you can hear it easily then you have too much unless its a specific effect you are after.

Hope this helps.

Al.

[Ramshackles]

Hey habitat, I'll give you a little trick I do often (you will hear it on your own song at some point...). Reverb, especialyl heavy reverb that you use can give the impression of pushing the vocal back.
Now, I'm assuming you use reverb as a send effect (if not, you should definitely try it)

You can counter this in a simple way by putting a delay before the reverb send (many reverbs already have this built in as 'pre delay'), so the reverb only kicks in after the initial attack of the signal.

But another way I like is:

after the reverb plugin in your send chain, put a mid/side processing plugin (voxengo do a free one called MSED that is usable, Waves have a more beautiful sounding&looking one called Centre if you have a bit of cash).
Put that on and just cut out a bit of the 'mid' or 'centre' signal. It will push the reverb more to the side and leave the 'phantom centre' more dry sounding. Which can help give an upfront vocal that is also nicely drenched in reverb!

EQ'ing you reverb can also help. Stick a high pass filter on it. Reverb tends to sound a bit nasty and muddy on vocals below about 100-500Hz. If the reverb seems more 'in your face' than the vocal, try cutting the 1500-3000Hz region in the reverb - this is the region of frequencies that the ear is most sensitive to


The final thing....which I've already told you, but the recording of the actually vocal will dictate the mix a lot. You want the mic to be well positioned, the sound to be 'dead' (if you are adding reverb after the fact. Try hanging a duvet behind you) and the preamp to be pushed hard. As you are using the preamp built in on your mic..just turn it up as loud as it can go but without any hint of distortion. This will optimise the signal to noise ratio
Some more expensive preamps (generally ones with tubes or discrete opamps or transformers in them) sound very nice when a little distortion is allowed to creep in, but otherwise, just stick to getting the best S/N ratio you can...


And just to re-iterate what I said again as seriousfun brought it up again :: Upgrade your mic before your preamp (as your mic has a preamp combined you probably WILL have to buy a preamp if you buy a new mic but my point stands). Preamps make very little difference compared to a good mic and good acoustics.

[habiTat]

Hey habitat, I'll give you a little trick I do often (you will hear it on your own song at some point...). Reverb, especialyl heavy reverb that you use can give the impression of pushing the vocal back.
Now, I'm assuming you use reverb as a send effect (if not, you should definitely try it)

You can counter this in a simple way by putting a delay before the reverb send (many reverbs already have this built in as 'pre delay'), so the reverb only kicks in after the initial attack of the signal.

But another way I like is:

after the reverb plugin in your send chain, put a mid/side processing plugin (voxengo do a free one called MSED that is usable, Waves have a more beautiful sounding&looking one called Centre if you have a bit of cash).
Put that on and just cut out a bit of the 'mid' or 'centre' signal. It will push the reverb more to the side and leave the 'phantom centre' more dry sounding. Which can help give an upfront vocal that is also nicely drenched in reverb!

EQ'ing you reverb can also help. Stick a high pass filter on it. Reverb tends to sound a bit nasty and muddy on vocals below about 100-500Hz. If the reverb seems more 'in your face' than the vocal, try cutting the 1500-3000Hz region in the reverb - this is the region of frequencies that the ear is most sensitive to


The final thing....which I've already told you, but the recording of the actually vocal will dictate the mix a lot. You want the mic to be well positioned, the sound to be 'dead' (if you are adding reverb after the fact. Try hanging a duvet behind you) and the preamp to be pushed hard. As you are using the preamp built in on your mic..just turn it up as loud as it can go but without any hint of distortion. This will optimise the signal to noise ratio
Some more expensive preamps (generally ones with tubes or discrete opamps or transformers in them) sound very nice when a little distortion is allowed to creep in, but otherwise, just stick to getting the best S/N ratio you can...


And just to re-iterate what I said again as seriousfun brought it up again :: Upgrade your mic before your preamp (as your mic has a preamp combined you probably WILL have to buy a preamp if you buy a new mic but my point stands). Preamps make very little difference compared to a good mic and good acoustics.

Cheers Ram, I'll take from that what I can but I'm not quite 'there' technically to understand all of it. The reverb i apply is an effect added to the track whilst in the daw, i'm not sure if that is 'send' or not?? I'm also not sure if I have a decent eq program. there is eq in audacity but it's not like the old fashioned slider type, more a graph if i recall, and it's not adjustable while the track is playing, only as an effect to apply. Am I missing something? Sorry, I'm learning, but slowly...

Hey bud,

I had a listen to a few of your recordings and I didnt find your vocal sat to far back, a tad maybe but overall I thought the sound wasnt as bad as you made out. One of the prime things that make vocals or any instrument for that matter sit back in the mix is the amount of reverb placed on them. Again I thought your's sounded pretty well right.

Another factor is panning. I normally try to have only the bass and the vocals panned to the center. This way the vocals are not competing with anything else. As for pre-amps, um with all due respect, I think a quality preamp makes a big dif, but the biggest difference is in the recording process itself. I would recomend recording the guiar and the vocals seperately. Some drum loops first if you use em and then the guitar ( with a click track if no drums) then record the vocals. This way you can get a good clean recording with no bleed from guitar to push it back in the mix. When you put the reverb in if you can hear it easily then you have too much unless its a specific effect you are after.

Hope this helps.

Al.

Cheers SF, so is there a general rule for where (ie left/right/centre) certain tracks normally go? You say vocal and bass go centre, is there some kind of diagram or something to explain it? Or is it different for every song?

Again, sorry, this is new to me. My Pawprint song is coming together and I'm taking all this on board, I've got a nice little guitar solo panned right and it sounds nice through the headphones 

[Boydie]

The reverb i apply is an effect added to the track whilst in the daw, i'm not sure if that is 'send' or not??

It sounds like you are applying reverb on a "track by track" basis - i.e. putting the reverb effect directly on the track

This is probably not too much of an issue as you are only using a small number of tracks (vocal & guitar) and may only be applying reverb to one track

The "SEND" method is usually preferred as it allows you to create a consistent "space" / environment across the whole track

It is also a much more efficient way of using reverb as your DAW/PC will only need to process 1 reverb effect - if you had 3 tracks with reverb on each track your DAW/PC would need to process each reverb effect

The idea of the "send" method is to insert a stereo track (usually a bus but we will worry about busses on another day if this concept is new to you!)

This would be an "empty" track (ie nothing recorded on it) that contains a 100% WET mix of your chosen reverb

On the channel strip on your DAW you should be able to insert a “SEND” where you can send a proportion of the tracks output to the REVERB track

If you do this across lots of different tracks you ensure that you are using the same reverb effect on every track, your DAW only needs to process one reverb and you can still control the amount of reverb on each track by varying the amount you SEND

I hope this makes some sense

[habiTat]

The reverb i apply is an effect added to the track whilst in the daw, i'm not sure if that is 'send' or not??

It sounds like you are applying reverb on a "track by track" basis - i.e. putting the reverb effect directly on the track

Thanks Boydie, yep that's what I'm doing.. kind of.   I am still only dipping in and out of sonar and mainly still use Audacity because I'm so comfortable with it. I just find sonar so alien and with fairly limited time to properly sit down and apply myself with no distractions, the opportunities I do get have been spent writing and recording in the way I already know.  

In Audacity I just highlight the track and select the effect/reverb I wish to apply. The computer then processes and alters the track..all done! (it normally also makes it quieter..?) As opposed to it having to process loads at the same time, if you see what I mean.

I have started recording tracks for my pawprint song in Audacity but will probably export each one as a .wav so I can open them in Sonar and try to add midi for synthy bits.

On another note, my two mics idea failed The second mic hisses too much to be usable, so I've had to record each part separately rather than voice/guitar at the same time..

Just to add, I've just found this, does it look right?
http://www.propellerheads.se/substance/record-u/img/part4/Fig-12-stereo-mix-4-GOOD.jpg

[Ramshackles]

Hi...you are using the reverb as an insert effect (i.e. it is inserted directly into the original audio track).
I did a quick google and it seems you cannot setup effects sends in Audacity  

Thats a reason for switching to Reaper right there  

but, you can kind of cheat and 'DIY' a send effect by doing this:

- duplicate your audio file
- in the duplicate file, add the effects you want (e.g. reverb, eq)
- balance both the original audio file (the 'dry' track) and the duplicate (the 'wet' track) to get the desired level of wet & dry

There is a nice tutorial thing here:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/GVerb

section 2.2

[Michael]

Just to add, I've just found this, does it look right?
http://www.propellerheads.se/substance/record-u/img/part4/Fig-12-stereo-mix-4-GOOD.jpg

I'm certainly no expert, but this looks very weird to me... you wouldn't want the kick and the snare panned so far to one side - in fact I'd always go with kick, snare and bass more or less exactly in the middle of the stereo field.

[habiTat]

Just to add, I've just found this, does it look right?
http://www.propellerheads.se/substance/record-u/img/part4/Fig-12-stereo-mix-4-GOOD.jpg

I'm certainly no expert, but this looks very weird to me... you wouldn't want the kick and the snare panned so far to one side - in fact I'd always go with kick, snare and bass more or less exactly in the middle of the stereo field.

Ah ok, so there is no 'one size fits all' approach then..?

Where generally would you guys normally put each track in this type of semicircle diagram?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm desperate to improve and I'm hoping all this will be able to help others like me as well  

[habiTat]

Hi...you are using the reverb as an insert effect (i.e. it is inserted directly into the original audio track).
I did a quick google and it seems you cannot setup effects sends in Audacity 

Thats a reason for switching to Reaper right there 

but, you can kind of cheat and 'DIY' a send effect by doing this:

- duplicate your audio file
- in the duplicate file, add the effects you want (e.g. reverb, eq)
- balance both the original audio file (the 'dry' track) and the duplicate (the 'wet' track) to get the desired level of wet & dry

There is a nice tutorial thing here:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/GVerb

section 2.2

AHA! I've already been doing exactly this. Duplicating the track and adding reverb to one but not the other, then bringing the dry track down a bit. Cool, I just found that by experimenting, so I'm heading in the right direction then?

Cheers Ram