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X Factor, BGT etc.. no space for originals

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James Nighthawk

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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2012, 11:15:39 PM »
If they can make a success of cameras following people round cooking dinner (come dine with me etc..) , doing some decorating (DIY SOS, changing rooms etc..) or even making wedding dresses (thelma's gypsy girls) then I'm sure they could follow some bands/solo artists as they try to break through and make it interesting.

All those shows are my idea of Hell

I barely turn on the tele nowadays because this is what passes for entertainment. Pseudo reality to lull the miserable masses.

Please keep song writing far, far away from such hokum.

Pandering will get us no where.

Lets look at this from a different angle. (I am typing while I think here, so if it falls flat ho hum!). There is no "scriptwriter-factor" or "Britain's got new novel writing talent". Fact is, the Singer songwriter is, in the art world, an oddity. Screen writers don't act out their work. Authors are known by a name on the cover. The work takes precedence . But, with the singer songwriter, there is this overlap, where artistic creation is adjoined with presentation. We are the makers and the showers. Even an artist shows his work, not him or herself.
This is why we even have the issue of authenticity from musicians. It is a fascination and important debate, but I like to step back and say there are auteurs and there are singers. Both can be good, both can be bad.
A talent show is a way of putting pretty people with decent karaoke voices on the tele alongside the mandatory (and oft cruel) car wrecks, in order to keep the TV viewers hooked long enough to see the (wildly expensive) adverts every 15 minutes. Singers work for such things... songwriters don't. Our songs need attention, multiple listens, a discerning ear.

And furthermore, songwriters often only appeal to certain markets. Some may think Dylan a genius, other a bore. Metalica rock some, not others. Cobain draws obsession and confusion in unequal measure (more to the latter if we were to play early Nirvana to a random selection of the public no doubt!

Again, pandering is not the way. Writing to please everyone pleases no one. And primetime cares only for ratings.
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James Nighthawk

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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2012, 11:16:57 PM »
@nooms!

Your link has borked the forum lol

Tooooooooooooo long. I have a left to right scroll bar on my screen now lol!!
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habiTat

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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2012, 11:24:33 PM »
@nooms!

Your link has borked the forum lol

Tooooooooooooo long. I have a left to right scroll bar on my screen now lol!!

LOL, its all gone wide hehe..


If they can make a success of cameras following people round cooking dinner (come dine with me etc..) , doing some decorating (DIY SOS, changing rooms etc..) or even making wedding dresses (thelma's gypsy girls) then I'm sure they could follow some bands/solo artists as they try to break through and make it interesting.

All those shows are my idea of Hell

I barely turn on the tele nowadays because this is what passes for entertainment. Pseudo reality to lull the miserable masses.

Please keep song writing far, far away from such hokum.

Pandering will get us no where.

Lets look at this from a different angle. (I am typing while I think here, so if it falls flat ho hum!). There is no "scriptwriter-factor" or "Britain's got new novel writing talent". Fact is, the Singer songwriter is, in the art world, an oddity. Screen writers don't act out their work. Authors are known by a name on the cover. The work takes precedence . But, with the singer songwriter, there is this overlap, where artistic creation is adjoined with presentation. We are the makers and the showers. Even an artist shows his work, not him or herself.
This is why we even have the issue of authenticity from musicians. It is a fascination and important debate, but I like to step back and say there are auteurs and there are singers. Both can be good, both can be bad.
A talent show is a way of putting pretty people with decent karaoke voices on the tele alongside the mandatory (and oft cruel) car wrecks, in order to keep the TV viewers hooked long enough to see the (wildly expensive) adverts every 15 minutes. Singers work for such things... songwriters don't. Our songs need attention, multiple listens, a discerning ear.

And furthermore, songwriters often only appeal to certain markets. Some may think Dylan a genius, other a bore. Metalica rock some, not others. Cobain draws obsession and confusion in unequal measure (more to the latter if we were to play early Nirvana to a random selection of the public no doubt!

Again, pandering is not the way. Writing to please everyone pleases no one. And primetime cares only for ratings.

I'd never really considered the (screenwriter-or-artist) vs (creator-and-presenter) angle. Good analysis James :)

 I can only agree with what you say.

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2012, 11:36:01 PM »
Ha.

Well thanks for opening the debate.

I think I have easily got enough material for a blog post here  ;D

Another reason this forum rocks!
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Boydie

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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2012, 10:20:22 AM »
I was hooked on that $KY show - it was really good

Not only was the winner genuinely talented but I found the other acts to be a good representation of the "amateur" music scene in the UK - there was a range of quality, including some really good bands

My personal view is that the "singer" and the "songwriter" should be treated as different entities/personas - I have never liked the "singer/songwriter" label - you are either a singer that writes songs - or a songwriter that sings songs

There is a very subtle difference

If you want to "make it" commercially I believe you should pick which one you want to pursue

 - if you want to be an "artist" then you should be prepared to sing whatever you are given

 - if you want to be a songwriter I feel you should be prepared to "give up" your songs to other artists that have a better voice, performance, look etc.

The chances of "making it" commercially as either a songwriter OR artist are already infinitesimally small - trying to make it as both reduces this even more

That isn't to say you can't make it as one first and then move to other - I believe Jessie J was a writer forst and then decided to become an "artitst"

This is all relating to "commercial" success - artistic success or getting your music "out there" is something very different

I believe this is the first decision to make - do you want to be a commercial success or an artistic success? (or course some achieve both but I think it is an "either/or" decision when you are starting out and one that very few consider)
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James Nighthawk

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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 03:23:48 PM »
Apologies for the double post, but this should be posted here too I think!

http://jamesnighthawk.com/2012/09/x-factor-the-whys-and-wherefores/

So came the blog post as promised!
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