[habiTat]

Ahhh it winds me up! Watching X factor with the family, they are all singing covers, trying to put a slant on something thats been done to death already. Only that northern girl with the guitar was doing her own song. Is it a lack of talent out there?? Judging by this site I'd say NO. It must be the format, it just doesn't like someone with originality and a mind of their own. They even got that northern girl singing 'move like Jagger' yesterday, she was SO bad at it, yet when she does her own stuff, she's really good. The other contests seem to be the same, ie the voice, bgt etc to a certain extent. Wouldn't it be great to have a true talent contest, with original writers/performers....

[James Nighthawk]

Don't sweat it

These talent shows are light entertainment. They exists aside the real music world, not a part of it. The music from it doesn't affect the gigging world, the album charts too much. And we're it not for them, pop pap would be found elsewhere.

Yup, it sucks, but it isn't indicative of a industry in turmoil. Live music is stronger than ever for instance. And while pirating is rife, I remember being a kid making cassettes from my friends collection and vice versa. There has always been a percentage of pirating, I don't any of it affects sales too drastically.

My qualm with these shows is the fact that young impressionable lads and lasses falsely place their dreams in these shows. I have worked with them.  Their parents bring them along to record demos in my studio as a precursor to their X factor experience. It is often the definition of false hope. 

[S.T.C]

Going to watch the last 10 mins...just to annoy myself...it`s appalling..

[habiTat]

Yep I get what you're saying James and you make some good points, especially with the false hope issue. What bugs me is that the choice few who do get their fast-track to fame, always seem to do it based on the performance only. If there was a platform for original artists, writing and playing their own music, with that same fast-track opportunity, that could be something really special. These shows just don't seem to be brave enough to take the risk and let them have true artistic freedom. I'll bet that the two girls who did get through doing their own songs will be 'moulded' into something different if they make the live shows. Each week they'll get bogged down singing ballads, or 'rock' songs or whatever..

I hope I'm wrong, and you're right, it is light entertainment, so it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things...

 

[James Nighthawk]

Yes. But how many of these fast-track-to-fame stars last more than 5 minutes. Very. Very few. And the ones that do (will young for instance) actually find an artistry of their own.

I am a glass half full type

[habiTat]

Yes. But how many of these fast-track-to-fame stars last more than 5 minutes. Very. Very few. And the ones that do (will young for instance) actually find an artistry of their own.

I am a glass half full type

Yep, you got me there, but is that because they have no true identity or talent to forge their own career? If a truly talented singer/songwriter got through and won the show on merit, they may have a better chance at longevity.

[tone]

Two things come to mind when I watch the x factor or shows like it. Firstly, it's that the main objective of the programme is to generate advertising revenue, not good music, a pop star or even a hit record (although S Cowell does very well out of that too.)

What makes good music doesn't really make good TV - sitting around in a studio all day rehearsing, tracking, sweating, re-writing, arranging, not being able to afford the time you need to get every idea in your head down.

But also, and probably more importantly, these shows do not want true artists as contestants. And I would go as far as to say the whole industry isn't really looking for true artists. They're looking for people they can manipulate, people who fit their idea of what sells, and people who will do pretty much anything to 'make it'. True artists they are not.

Imagine if Kurt Cobain went on the x factor. Or one of the Beatles/ stones. Bjork. Paul Simon. You can pick anyone really - none of them would get past stage 2. And none of them would tolerate being turned into mediocre pop puppets whose job it is to sell as many records as quickly as possible before being unceremoniously dumped, with no real investment in their art or career.

I'd rather be in a pub in rural Devon playing to a couple of dozen slightly pissed, but genuinely enthusiastic punters like I was last night, and be free the rest of the time to make the music that excites me, and write the songs that I want to bring to the world, the way I want to bring them.

Will music ever make me rich? NO! But will it ever earn me enough money to carry on making it - a possibility. This for me is enough.

Interesting thread though

[James Nighthawk]

Singer songwriters don't enter these shows. They know they are a lost cause for them. These shows want malleablity. Creativity would be a negative for the show producers. They want a sheep not a wolf

[habiTat]

Two things come to mind when I watch the x factor or shows like it. Firstly, it's that the main objective of the programme is to generate advertising revenue, not good music, a pop star or even a hit record (although S Cowell does very well out of that too.)

What makes good music doesn't really make good TV - sitting around in a studio all day rehearsing, tracking, sweating, re-writing, arranging, not being able to afford the time you need to get every idea in your head down.

But also, and probably more importantly, these shows do not want true artists as contestants. And I would go as far as to say the whole industry isn't really looking for true artists. They're looking for people they can manipulate, people who fit their idea of what sells, and people who will do pretty much anything to 'make it'. True artists they are not.

Imagine if Kurt Cobain went on the x factor. Or one of the Beatles/ stones. Bjork. Paul Simon. You can pick anyone really - none of them would get past stage 2. And none of them would tolerate being turned into mediocre pop puppets whose job it is to sell as many records as quickly as possible before being unceremoniously dumped, with no real investment in their art or career.

I'd rather be in a pub in rural Devon playing to a couple of dozen slightly pissed, but genuinely enthusiastic punters like I was last night, and be free the rest of the time to make the music that excites me, and write the songs that I want to bring to the world, the way I want to bring them.

Will music ever make me rich? NO! But will it ever earn me enough money to carry on making it - a possibility. This for me is enough.

Interesting thread though

Singer songwriters don't enter these shows. They know they are a lost cause for them. These shows want malleablity. Creativity would be a negative for the show producers. They want a sheep not a wolf

Like..

Totally agree with that. Wouldn't it be great though if, say BBC4 did a series for the 'real' industry? That way the ambitious, fame hungry, genuinely talented types could be propelled to the front.

[James Nighthawk]

As tone says. It's hard to make songwriting sexy. It's a private, mildly geeky affair, that culminates in something original

Like all art.

Art and mainstream television aren't great bedfellows. Forcing them together would likely be painful viewing or more likely the art would be sidelined for pizazz

[habiTat]

Shame though isn't it..

If they can make a success of cameras following people round cooking dinner (come dine with me etc..) , doing some decorating (DIY SOS, changing rooms etc..) or even making wedding dresses (thelma's gypsy girls) then I'm sure they could follow some bands/solo artists as they try to break through and make it interesting. Maybe not on the scale of the X-monster but still something worthy of TV. I for one would watch it.

[tone]

I don't know - would it make good telly? I'd be happier if artists were just given more recognition, and a more accessible music industry that was actually interested in taking a risk every now and again.

I doubt even radiohead could get a record deal these days if they were unknown and unsigned.

But maybe the worst thing about all this is that I suspect there's still an appetite out there for great original music. But if your public never hears you, how are you supposed to prove that they'll like you?

The pop video is part of the problem here. As time goes by, pop videos have become more and more about being sexy. If you're not sexy, no-one will buy the record - at least, that's what the record company execs will have you believe.

But then along comes Gotye - not a sexy video by any stretch, although it does somehow feature a naked woman...

It's a bloody mess, isn't it?!

[habiTat]

The net was meant to change all this..

You'd think the internet would help the industry. A tool which lets you sell an old jumper to someone on the other side of the country (ebay) and let people express their thoughts in an instant, should be a force for good as well in the creative arts.

The net was supposed to open the world up to everyone. It has, in a sense, but the trouble is there is too much noise.. Everybody talks and nobody listens.

[HillbillyJim]

I for one would watch it.

This program was actually made, it was on Sky 1 a year or 2 ago, called 'Must be the Music'. Songwriters / bands playing their own songs on their own instruments in an otherwise X Factor-ish format. I don't think many people watched it though, and the standard was mostly disappointing, and occasionally no less patronising than the X Factor itself. This was the winning song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgQ2v1CGVU4

It's obviously got infinitely more merit than whatever the X Factor winner is going to come out with, but it's not exactly spectacular. It's middling and harmless enough that you can see how it won a public vote. That said, I would still love to see this sort of thing done with some talented songwriters by the BBC - possibly even on the radio, if there's no budget / audience for it on TV.

[habiTat]

I for one would watch it.

This program was actually made, it was on Sky 1 a year or 2 ago, called 'Must be the Music'. Songwriters / bands playing their own songs on their own instruments in an otherwise X Factor-ish format. I don't think many people watched it though, and the standard was mostly disappointing, and occasionally no less patronising than the X Factor itself. This was the winning song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgQ2v1CGVU4

It's obviously got infinitely more merit than whatever the X Factor winner is going to come out with, but it's not exactly spectacular. It's middling and harmless enough that you can see how it won a public vote. That said, I would still love to see this sort of thing done with some talented songwriters by the BBC - possibly even on the radio, if there's no budget / audience for it on TV.

Yep I think the 'Sky' part of that was the problem. What have they got, 6 million potential viewers?, as opposed to terrestrial with 60 million plus.. I've not heard of that show and that's probably because I wont pay for Sky, even though they've nicked half of my beloved F1. I just watch that half in German now

The BBC could do a show like this under their obligatory cultural remit, on a Monday night or something.