konalavadome

No holds barred - speak your mind, because the forum is in trouble

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The Corsair

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« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2012, 11:50:17 AM »
I think Kaf and Schav do need to 'agree to disagree' as Scahv put it because you both hold views that both hold validity. It comes down to personal experiences and how they dictate your world view. I know a guy who's family is dead quiet and whenever someone calls out to him across a room he gets offended because he thinks the person is angry at him or something.

I think Shav and Kaf both have valid viewpoints and I can see where both are coming from. I find myself agreeing more with Schav because he has spoken his mind and has been, in my opinion, realistic but frankly Kaf has a completely different life experience and has found Schav to be overly offensive and there's nothing wrong with that being his opinion. There are places in the world where the C word would be used flippantly in everyday conversation and those people just don't see what they've done 'wrong' when they talk like that in other cultures. That's kind of what's going on here.


In terms of approaching a solution, I think it's becoming pretty clear that Boydie's summary of the suggestions is the most popular idea and I do hope we try and adopt those principles.
Defective Elector

Schavuitje

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« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2012, 11:53:06 AM »
Don't know if you have noticed Kaf but this thread is no holes barred.
I know sometimes I react more strongly that what most people find comfortable. I aprreciate that.
But it doesn't mean that I am not right. All the support I have had in private messages pretty much all say the same thing.
That I am right but am probably not putting it in the right way.
The pub analogy was about people giving beers away for free, to people who bother to contirbute and be a part of the social group.
In a shop the social group doesn't matter because you are SELLING.
A stranger walks into a shop and it doesn't matter because they are PAYING for what they recieve.
A stranger walking into a group and expecting to be given free beer (that costs the group money, just like reviews cost TIME) would probably be told to piss off.
This forum will not exist without people giving and not just taking. But why should it only be a certain group that gives?
And yes it is only MINOR changes that would be needed. Noone including myself has said otherwise. But NOTHING was being done.
This has come up in arguement time after time. And it certainly isn't always me that starts the complaining.
So why does this keep coming up? Because there IS a problem.
What if we all started only posting our own stuff and none of use reviewed? That wouldn't work would it.
I'm into fairness and equality very much and if some members on here have a problem with the injustice of it, then it is a problem.
You might not like it and you might not like the way I have approached it, but it's there.
This has been argue'd many times and still people are left frustrated. You might not like my strong stance but at least someone has kicked up enough fuss that
for once it looks like something might be done.

Yes what Nooms does is the best way. No one not even myself dissagree's with that.
What some people are failing to see or acknowledge is that although we are all agree'd that that is probably the best way and should STILL remain the way we try
to get members to join in. SOME members are ignoring the advice of being fair and continue, despite people being polite about it, to come in here and take without giving.
Sjoerd is a good example.
So what then? What when the nudging and polite advice doesn't work and people keep posting reviews on their stuff?
The older members who AGREE with and LIKE the way Nooms does it and believe that that is the best way, are no longer getting the message across because depsite
 their best effort because people they are getting reviews so why listen to people talking about being fair.
It undermines the message and if it carries on you will get more and more who think, "ok I'm still getting the reviews I want so why bother."

It doesn't take drastic measures to re-think how this problem can be tackled. If you read my posts I still believe in the gentle reminders as much as everyone else.
I'm talking about what to do with people who ignore them and don't drop away from the forums. People who keep returning. As long as they are getting reviewed why should they care about joining in? And joining in is what this forum is about or, like I said, it doesn't work. It also leads memebers like myself to re-think about giving so much. Why should review when others are allowed to keep coming back and get away with not doing?
You cannot have an unfair system.
If it wasn't desired that people give as well as take, why is it in the guidelines? Why do people get uspet about it.
It doesn't take a genuis mate.
Yes I do probably get over irate. That tends to happen when people live in a home, belong to a group, etc... In which they see injustices.
I don't think I put things across as I should sometimes. But I am right. And although people would generally agree with you about me not putting it across in the best manner, a great deal of people are showing support for what I am saying, just not how I say it.
I was attacked here a while ago. I was called a wanker. I was attacked because someone did not like my opinion. I didn't swear, I didn't call anyone a name but because I argue'd a point strongly (and there's nothing wrong with that, like you said about Tina) I was called a wanker.
I told that person that it was a good job that it had been said on here because if it had been said to my face I would have sparked them out.
I don't know which world you live in Kaf, but if someone calls me a wanker to my face for no good reason other than that they dissagree with me, that is exactly what I would do.
I'm not going to lie or pretend to be someone I am not.
You may see that as agression and I guess it is, but justified.
Again like you say, there is nothing wrong with putting a view across strongly if you feel strongly about it and that is hat I do most of the time.
Sometimes I lose my cool agree'd.
Tina is a well respected member of this forum and this obviously bothers her too. To have someone who barely spends any time here then come in and trivialize her feelings and undermine them is out of order and disrespectful.
I stand against that.
And yes, people who have put a great deal into the forums and support it regularly should be considered in how they feel, above people who hardly spend any time here in comparison.
What kind of place allows its long standing contributers/supporters to start to feel alienated by the newer members.
Yes everyone is equal, but that time and effort is not worthless.
Yes it could have been ANY group of people who supported this forum but it wasn't, it was the people who are here.
And if those newer member did what Nooms does which all of us older members agree is the best way to do it. We'd be alright wouldn't we.
Things would go how they always have. But things are not going how they always have because some of the newcomers don't agree with the guidelines aparently, or they wouldn't keep giving the takers reviews without pointing them in the right direction at the same time.
That small change that the newcomers could make, to join us in that message rather than undermining it could solve the problem. Support for the message that Tone's guidelines point out and what we longer term members point out.
But no... That's too difficult.
It would be the smallest of changes. Pathetic!


There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.

Kafla

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« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2012, 12:13:52 PM »
Its all getting a bit repetitive now

Unless anyone has anything really new to add I think Tone has all the ammunition he needs to implement the changes as he sees fit ;D

tone

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« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2012, 01:28:02 PM »
Yep, I've got all I need. I'll be working on a welcome email, and appointing a couple of mods in the very near future.

In the meantime....


Be excellent to one another :)

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