Tina. You are not to blame at all.
You are simply one of the good people who hate to see this place abused and are not afraid to speak your mind.
All you did weas ask Sjoerd why you should bother to waste your time on his post when he NEVER spend time on anyone else.
A very fair question and one that should be asked of members who only take.
I mean let's get real here. It's not a lot that is being asked.
A system that worked for a long time isn't working so great anymore. People who in the past got the message. Don't anymore.
We all had the same way of dealing with these selfish people and it worked.
Now they come here, and instead of everyone being united in guiding them towards integrating or ignoring them.
A Forum is a community.
Why join a community to not take any other part than to take?
If you were in a pub having some drinks with your mates and everytime it was time fro a round, some starnger walked over to get his pint and then left again, doesn't join in with the group... doesn't join in the conversation, how would you react to that? I'm, going to guarrantee that you will tell this stranger who only arrives in your group when their is a free pint being handed over to piss off!
Maybe it's because a pint costs money I think everyone would react differently.
Well getting a review costs others people TIME.
No one is asking for this place to become cold or angry.
This place has always tried to get people to behave more socially and not selfishly. Nothing has changed there. No one is asking for anything new.
But a lot of the newer memebers are ignoring this. Not only are they not working together with the whole ethos of the foums - which is participation, they seem to be actively
working against it. The review these selfish people without any mention of how we like people to join in on other peoples threads to make things fair.
This is what is making some longer term members angry.
The message of fairness is a good one. The message of not being selfish is a good one, but it seems SONGSTHATCRY, that the newer members have their own agenda. Out with the old in with the new. Well I despise that view. You give no worth to some of the beautiful long term supportive members.
I agree with one thing you say which is that whether you are a newer member or an older member, there should be equality. You are right. But this is precisely what this is about.
People not being equal. People not giving and only taking is not equal is it. But the newer members (someof them) are not supporting the idea's that have long been the basis of this forum.
And to be fair the longer term members who have given an incredible amount to this forum and have always strived to welcome new people and get them to integrate are now being ignored.
They don't deserve this. Yes things should be equal. But when you have given so much you have a right to a bit more respect for what you have given.
Let's think about what is being asked!
That new members are given time.
We all know that joining in is a big step for some people.
No one is suggesting that people are jumped on straight away.
What is being suggested is that Newcomers are all given the benefit of doubt.
That we help to EASE them into the forumand the spirit of it.
That we give gentle nudges in the right direction.
That we continue to review necomers whether they review or not AT FIRST.
That longer term members who take no heed of the gentle nudging, who return time after time for their own selfish needs are dealt with.
It's not a massive shake-up. It's a few small changes to help a forum that is evolving.
What would happen if all the members who do most of the reviewing only started to post their own songs and not review anyone else.
Is it impossible for people to see that that is wrong? How long would people put up with it?
So why should we put up with it from anyone else.
If so I suggest we change this from a forum to a FREE SONG REVIEW SERVICE.
I'm sorry to see Kaf go and I'm sorry to see Tina go and after this debate I'll be going too.
No metter how you disguise it, selfishness is what it is and I am not willing to put up with people who abuse others.
I am for community, respect, support, friendship and everything that makes a community great. Those who don't wish to give back and here's the most important part, CONINUALLY, should be ignored. NOt encouraged to carry on that selfish behaviour by being given what they came for.
James you were right to post your polite, well mannered nudge
Tina you are right to challenge these unbelievably selfish people
You too Songsmith
And everyone else who gives their time so generously just to have it abused. I suggest you all only post your own stuff and leave everyone else's and see what happens.
I wonder if everyone will just keep quite about it or whether there will be further uproar?
I don't understand people who use the LAME excuse that their time is limited. Too many things to do in real life.
Oh really. Well you have time to write the song, work on and record it.
We all have lives. Some busier than others. And we all have sad stories. My dads got alzheimers so that means I should be selfish. Sorry that arguement doesn't work.
If you have time to create songs you have time to spare just a little for other people. they have busy live too but they post on your stuff!
Tone himself tries to encourage people not to behave in this selfish manner. The guidelines point this out too. And many of the members try to point this out to new members too.
So most people clearly believe in it. But what happenes when someone basically says that they don't care? What happenes when someone ignores all this advice and return time after time.
Are you new members (some of you) helping us in trying to keep the forums a fair place? No you are not.
It's not about controlling people. It's about all joining together to KEEP this forum a great place for those who choose to GIVE as well as take. It's about justice and fairness and what is right.
And this is by no means about music. I post songs on here much less frquently than other people. The last I posted was some old songs that I put in one thread.
Plus my music is only for my own pleasure and not for gigging or trying to "make it".
It is purely about fairness and what is acceptable behaviour to accept from someone.
I'm sick of seeing in life, the selfish, the rude, the bullies win. I am standing up for what is right and I will defend it and the people who also stand up for it.
Or do we live in a country where the freedom to defend what is right has been taken away? Where we better just shut our mouths and put up with the arseholes?
Yeah right.
We learn it as children. GIVE and take.
That this whole thread has to happen in the first place and common sense can't be used to deal with the abusers is a joke.
There have been numerous occassions where some of the members who actually care about being abused have spoken to the abusers but these days we are constantly
undermined by SOME of the new members who instead of supporting the idea of give and take, allow the takers to take.
I think it is incredibly selfish to join a forum and then swim against the tide of what the majority of the forum holds dear.
It's not going to stop.
Nothing will get done about the abusers and the people who help them rather than supporting the ethos of the forum.
That's why I'm checking out.
In life there is equality. Yes. But there is also common sense. You don't join a group and then immediately think your way and your say should count as much as peoples who have already proved themselves.
It takes time to be accepted into a group. That just doesn't happen in real life. You should respect that although everyone is equal, you can't just join a group that is new to you
and start upsetting the apple cart.
I'm leaving because I no longer wish to be a giver. I no longer wish to give to anyone who behaves selfishly or SUPPORTS the selfish people.
I would stay and just post my own songs for review but I don't think that would go down very well. WHICH IS THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wake up.
