[The Corsair]

Hold that thought Tina...


Guys, can we please stop jumping ship? We're having this discussion to reach a solution and as far as I'm aware we're actually starting to approach one. It's pointless to leave just because it's a bit difficult right now, just carry on with this discussion and we'll get through it. Leaving only perpetuates the problem for those who stay.

[S.T.C]

Hold that thought Tina...


Guys, can we please stop jumping ship? We're having this discussion to reach a solution and as far as I'm aware we're actually starting to approach one. It's pointless to leave just because it's a bit difficult right now, just carry on with this discussion and we'll get through it. Leaving only perpetuates the problem for those who stay.

Yes i agree....it`s all getting a bit daft!...it`s really quite solvable ....

[nooms]

your not responsible for all this tina, it will pass, if all the good people drop out the forum is dead.
weve all got to calm down and stop reacting as if the martians have landed, they havent.

like kaf, you are brilliant, your committment to writing and this forum is gold dust.
we will all lose if this intangible 'thing' takes over.
stay. we joined the same week and i feel like i know you and the other 'lifers'..
this is breaking me up now..

nooms

[Boydie]

Please guys - take a deep breath and get some PERSPECTIVE

We are talking about how to make an already great forum even better - this is NOT world war 3

Please do not get caught up in the "they left, so I will leave" mentality

Please stop and think about why you joined this forum in the first place,

think about the great feedback you have received,

think about that review you were nervous about giving - when the writer agrees with you and you help them improve,

think about the songs you are yet to write - who will you share them with, will there be a community as good as this one (I had a good look around and I can tell you there isn't  )

Nobody is "guilty" of anything - we are focussing on how to make the system better

I don't see this as a witch hunt and I only see people being named as examples of issues

The sooner we move on from this the quicker we can get back to reviewing songs - and I have some good ones lined up so I want you guys to stay around and review them for me    

[Nekia]

Speaking as a newcomer with fresh eyes, I'd say that the ones that are being pedantic and confrontational are those that have gained some kind of comfort as a part of the furniture on here. These people should be reminded that as forum members, we're all equal. By all means say "you should read the rules, you have to do X before you can do X" with a review to follow, so the gentle bit goes along with an actual response.

What I've seen is more along the lines of what I would expect from children when bullying peers. It's really not their place to say what people should be doing.

Another problem is the sheer volume of posts in the lyrics forum. It needs to be separated into more than one section in order to slow down the pace and encourage conversation and rappor building between forum members.

I'd suggest 3 different lyrics sections: Pop/chart style music, Rock/indy/metal style music & Lyrics in progress.

The third would be for people who have a hook or chorus but would nedd some help getting the rest of the words in order.

[S.T.C]

Speaking as a newcomer with fresh eyes, I'd say that the ones that are being pedantic and confrontational are those that have gained some kind of comfort as a part of the furniture on here. These people should be reminded that as forum members, we're all equal. By all means say "you should read the rules, you have to do X before you can do X" with a review to follow, so the gentle bit goes along with an actual response.

What I've seen is more along the lines of what I would expect from children when bullying peers. It's really not their place to say what people should be doing.

Another problem is the sheer volume of posts in the lyrics forum. It needs to be separated into more than one section in order to slow down the pace and encourage conversation and rappor building between forum members.

I'd suggest 3 different lyrics sections: Pop/chart style music, Rock/indy/metal style music & Lyrics in progress.

The third would be for people who have a hook or chorus but would nedd some help getting the rest of the words in order.

Hope you`ve got a good tin hat.. ...

incoming..

[estreet]

i started all this
all i ever wanted to do was make this place a bit better & fairer
i hate the world but i cant change it .....but i just thought i could make a stand for the things i value on here in this little world & now we have world war 3
if kafla has left aswell i cant tell you how upset i am...i am the one who must leave...this is all so awful

This seems to be turning into a mass suicide. I repeat what I said earlier, the ones who are arguing over this are not the people who are the problem so it's all misguided. We may not agree how to handle the issues, but handing over the forum to the chaos isn't the answer. I put it down to the Super full moon. It's certainly making my dog act very strangely.

[James Nighthawk]

Wow.

I cannot believe that people are actually jumping ship because of this thread?! Hold steady people   

Healthy debate is good and mature, and helps things grow.

We are discussing tweaks to the forum set-up to help it out. That's it! I personally don't like anger or nastiness on any forum and always prefer to use reason and discussion. I thought it was going well here?

A welcome email (glad you all like that idea and limiting each member to one or two songs a week with a bit of coding would probably solve 95% of these issues and get the forum  back to solid ground.

James xx

[estreet]

Wow.


A welcome email (glad you all like that idea and limiting each member to one or two songs a week with a bit of coding would probably solve 95% of these issues and get the forum  back to solid ground.

James xx

Agreed - It's got to be worth trying just that and seeing if it gets better. What harm can it do? If it doesn't work then it's a rethink.

[James Nighthawk]

Thanks estreet

I can't believe Tinam and Kafla have gone!

If anyone has their contact details, do email them and try and get them back. Tone can perhaps undelete their profiles, or they could set up new, whatever...

Another idea that has been floated before - Extend page one a little bit. If the forum is getting bigger, allow a bigger front page for reviews. Not sure myself on that one, but wanted to throw it back in the pile.

This is a GREAT forum. People: hold steady for a week or two and in the mean time keep calm and carry on. Review, create, discuss, share... keep everything that is great about this place while Tone considers the tweaks needed to get over this bump in the road

Much Love x

[Songsmith]

I am finding some of this quite astonishing!!!

Why on earth are so many people turning "The Sword" on themselves when there is no reason to whatsoever?

As estreet said "the ones who are arguing are not the problem". It has got a touch too personal when there was no need for any of that at all!!!!

As James just mentioned " a good healthy debate is mature " but some people have taken things to heart & have been hurt resulting in premature ship jumping & rash decision making I feel, all very sad & unnecessary.

Surely the best thing is to ride the storm out & hopefully feel a lot healthier for it!!!!

[S.T.C]

The more things change,the more they stay the same...

some truth in this ....

Is the forum really in trouble, or is it just that founder members have issues with the changing face of this site..and so are threatening to leave and this is worrying Tone?

If there was a mass clear out..it wouldn`t make any difference in the long run......there seems no shortage of budding musicians out there!!

But in saying all this...i think it should be decided by the more established members...not that were not all equal , but just as a courtesy.

I`ve offered my solution..more forums within the forum to post....forget trying to make peeps comment and all that...i don`t know of any other site that enforces that rule.

Off to tesco now to buy some beer...and write a new song.

[Dutchbeat]

I think everybody has valid points, we just don't agree on everything.

But since we are now at the point that talented songwriters like Kafla, Schavuitje and Tinam, extremely fun people to hang out with in cyber space, are leaving or considering to leave, i think we should perhaps consider to end the discussion for now...

and wish Tone as the ruler of this forum (and the entire songwriting universe) and Cathy as his faithfull moderator, wisdom to decide on which new guidlines or rules could be helpful, and respect those. Give Tone some time to decide what can be changed on the basis of all the arguments that were made here, and let us all respect his decision, so that we can continue this forum and Kafla, Schavuitje and Tinam, and everybody that at the moment may be considering to leave just stay on board. Every forum will have these problems, so there is no other place where it is better. Perhaps we can write a song about selfish posters and have a competition about that.

Anyway this talk about these issues clearly has had an impact on the number of new members joining...if you look at the statistics page, you can see an enormous drop of new members joining, going down from 2000! a month in march (could that be right?   it can't be...) to only 72 in April!

if we go on like this, this 'problem' will have 'solved' itself, because then there is no songwriter forum left anymore........

come on, beautiful songwriters, unite  

 

[The Corsair]

I agree with DB, let's have this thread locked and all go for a long walk.

I think enough has been put forward here that Tone can make his own decision now. What we need is to leave some thinking time.

I will say this though. There are forums out there that are over-policed, but that should not scare us into under-policing. Some restriction is good.

[Boydie]

I think part of the problem with forums, especially during discussions like this, is that it is VERY easy to read each and every post as a personal criticism of yourself!

Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you! 

I would urge everyone not to take anything in this thread personally but just as a frank "no hold barred" discussion to sort out some very minor issues

There are actually some fantastic ideas in this thread and I am sure we will benefit from a better and stronger forum as a result

As a "newbie" I am less sentimental about people leaving (because I have not been lucky enough to get to know them properly yet) but I do hope they will reconsider - there would be no loss of face at all if they did, I am sure they would be welcomed back with open arms