[tone]

EDIT: Could we implement a '5 posts before you can start a thread'-type thing? It might mean we're a bit less 'wide open' to new members but then again are we really sure we want the sorts of members who can't be bothered to make 5 posts before putting up their own stuff?

In short, no. ;p

Rules such as that lead to spammy and insincere posts, and they only serve to damage the forum. Would you rather a new member spent 15 minutes giving a thorough and useful review of a single song, or post "good song mate" in 5 different threads so they can post their own song?

It doesn't work, and it's not good for the forum. What makes this place different is its integrity, but it doesn't come for free. In order to preserve it you sometimes have to work a little harder, and accept a few compromises.

Letting the non-reviewers slide off the page un-replied to doesn't seem like a big ask to me.

[tina m]

Letting the non-reviewers slide off the page un-replied to doesn't seem like a big ask to me.

it doesnt work ..only the regulars know who the nonreveiwers are ... the rest of the members come on less frequencly & blindly pick the songs at the top & review them
anyway i now feel like an evil witch over making a fuss about all this which im sure will help me write b etter lyrics

[tone]

it doesnt work ..only the regulars know who the nonreveiwers are ... the rest of the members come on less frequencly & blindly pick the songs at the top & review them
anyway i now feel like an evil witch over making a fuss about all this which im sure will help me write b etter lyrics

You're missing an important part of the puzzle though... The songs most likely to be at the top of the page are the regular members', being the ones receiving the most replies.

You're not an evil witch And if it helps you to write better lyrics...

[tina m]

im not arguing with you tone but the songs most likely to be at or around the top are the the last ones posted
& ive not even mentioned the xtreme liberals here  who resent any rules & deliberateley review anybody  cos it upsets the old guard
!!
anyway ive got to forget all this & do some music ...mustnt forget why im here

[The Corsair]

I agree with Tina here...

When I come on to the forum, I click 'show unread posts' and that gives me everything I've missed with the most recent posts at the top. That gives no more preference to regulars than it does to non-reviewers. In fact if anything the non-reviewers that generally post more frequently are more likely to be toward the top.

Now because not everyone operates this way I can't quite base my view off that. What I can do, though, is implore you to take a look at Fisherman. He's posted 5 songs since joining on April 26th and has posted only two reviews. Most of us have stopped reviewing his songs because of this but his latest still has 3 reviews on it and because of that he's likely going to carry on posting his own songs while contributing almost nothing in return.

[James Nighthawk]

@Tone

Good, well balanced edits to the forum Terms, Brava! And I agree that enforcing a 5 review minimum wouldn't work. It would make the board full of filler reviews. The reviews that matter are the one's where time and effort is put in  (And no, they needn't be long reviews; there are plenty of people on here that review short and sweet, but they clearly listen and care!)

I think that perhaps the most straightforward way to deal with this could be: As and when someone shows signs of playing unfair, we need simply post the link to the guidelines as a post on their thread. Nothing more. That might be all people need to push them into playing fair. Only one person need post the link, and then leave them to either get involved or find themselves mostly ignored. When I jump on a new thread I always quick scan down the posts before listening, so for me that's all the flagging I would need.

This stops personal attacks but still prevents selfishness.

And I agree to give all newcomers the benefit of the doubt to start with. We all start things differently in life; some easing in and testing the water, some dive straight in the deep end

http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/song-reviews/guidelines-for-posting-a-song-review-please-read-before-posting/

Copy. Paste. Done!

 

[Ramshackles]

Seems like the old guard is getting a bit lazy no? 
It only takes a little bit of scrolling, perhaps one click to get to page two to get an idea of what songs there are and to skip over the ones you dont think deserve a review.

Tinam: I think you disprove your own theory that the ones around the top are only the latest ones posted. 'The Jar in My head' has been on the first page for a while now...I dont think it ever went lower than the 2nd page and it was posted in January
My own 'old songs' posting has been up there for 9 days now. James' 'Speak Out' is coming up to around 3 weeks or more and its on the first page, whereas there are plenty more recent ones that have fallen down to the 2nd or 3rd page and these are generally the efforts of 'non-reviewers'.

Corsair: Seems like most of fishermans song have quickly dropped off the front page apart from his most recent one. And 3 reviews is nothing compared to the +10, +20 or even +30 that the 'old guard' are getting.

I don't want to get up anyones nose, but I do think the reviews forum, on the whole, works as tone wants..

[The Corsair]

I think you missed my point about Fisherman there a bit Ramshackles. I wasn't using him as an example of something non-reviewer on the first page of the reviews forum (I don't check the boards through checking the pages anyway so I wouldn't really know where his songs are), I was more using him as an example of a non-reviewer that hasn't contributed substantially but is still getting feedback on his stuff.

I do agree though that everything pretty much works well. The issue I think Tina and I are getting at is that there are members (who are good contributors) who will post reviews on the songs of non-reviewers, prolonging their stay here and adding extra clutter to the 'show unread topics' page and, to some extent (though it is little, as you've shown) the first page of the reviews board. All it takes is two or so reviews on a non-reviewers song and they'll go ahead and post another. If they got no reviews then they'd likely take the hint and leave us...





Gaaaaahhhhh and when this thread started I was saying that things were fine and it was just the sudden influx that had annoyed people, obviously it's got to me too...

I've had a terrible week, perhaps I should sit out from this discussion for a few days...

[Boydie]

I like James' idea of one person copying and pasting a link to the guidelines

This would also act as a flag to others that someone thinks this person does not deserve a review - without any nastyness or abuse

This would then not only encourage new members to take a look at the guidelines but also clearly identify people that post after this "warning" - who may be encouraged to play by the rules guidelines

I accept this could be seen as a form of soft moderation, which I appreciate TONE wants to avoid and I respect him for that, but it may act as a halfway house solution

[tone]

Posting a link to the guidelines is perfectly acceptable. I have no desire to prevent the spread of good manners; in fact, good manners is what this thread is really about. Despite the fact that a couple of you have blown off steam in a way that I object to, the fact is that by taking part in the community you have displayed better manners than those who come for the reviews without giving back.

You guys rock

PS, posting excerpts from the guidelines is also acceptable, such as this "Remember - the more quality feedback you give, the more you receive. Take time to listen and review other members' songs." which you'll see is also in my sig.

[Kafla]

Posting a link to the guidelines is perfectly acceptable. I have no desire to prevent the spread of good manners; in fact, good manners is what this thread is really about. Despite the fact that a couple of you have blown off steam in a way that I object to, the fact is that by taking part in the community you have displayed better manners than those who come for the reviews without giving back.

You guys rock

PS, posting excerpts from the guidelines is also acceptable, such as this "Remember - the more quality feedback you give, the more you receive. Take time to listen and review other members' songs." which you'll see is also in my sig.

I have out that in my sig too - perhaps for a while we could all do that to subliminally condition all new members 

[James Nighthawk]

@Boydie, cheers, but technically I was just backing up tones point and providing the direct link so credit to Tone please 

@Kafla, its a nice idea and clearly well intended, but that might like a little aggressive to a newcomer, seeing that on everyone's footer. We want to welcome new people surely? But if others want to join you that is cool, I just think everyone doing it might be overkill 

[tina m]

do you like my sig?

[James Nighthawk]

@Tinam

haha. Just the right amount of cheeky. Love it

[tina m]

dont you think tone it would be a good idea to have in your posting guidelines please dont post more than 1 song at once or even in the same week? people seem to have a ridiculous  sense of how great there music is & how much the world needs to hear it all at once!