[Schavuitje]

Yesterday I read some lyrics by The Corsair that were really good. What helped was that he posted a song along with them, stating that
his lyrics would be presented in a simillar way to the vocals early on in the song. It worked for me and I was able to get a good image of how
those lyrics should be heard.
What I find with most lyrics posted is that, really, they seem to be more poems than lyrics and I struggle with most to see/hear/work out how
they could be made to fit music. And for them to be lyrics and not poems, they have to be able to be put to music.
Because I ALWAYS write music first and then worry about lyrics, making them fit the mood of the music, I can't work out whether
it's just my problem of not being able to work that way around or whether they really are mostly poems.

So my question is this
All you lyric writers who post frequently... Do you have a rythmn, meter, style, timing, etc... in mind when writing your lyrics?
Do you think about how your lyrics would fit to music or do you just write and hope that someone somewhere could make music out of them?

I get the feeling that some lyric writers are not taking in to account whatsoever how the lyrics might be twisted and tweaked to SOUND good. Rather they just
read very well on paper.

It's very difficult to take different sentences that are different in length and meter and make them fit music. Music has structure and so imo, it's easier to
find lyrics when you already have something to hum or sing along to. Writing lyrics with no structure in mind behind them is going to make them very hard lyrics to
fit to music.

Any thoughts?
Is it just me haha?

[Boydie]

Great points Schavuitje

I share your exact view point

I have in the past scribbled some lyrics down but I always have some kind of rhythm in my mind - most of the time a melody as well but always a rhythm

I got asked to do some collaborations recently and got sent a load of lyrics from 8 different aspiring songwriters

Not ONE of them had written lyrics that could be easily set to music, there was no real structure (verse, chorus etc.) and no proper rhyme scheme at all

I am the first to appreciate that there are no "rules" to songwriting so please do not flame me for that BUT I do personally believe a good song should conform to one of the recognised formats - especially if you want to look for commercial success

I would love to know how Bernie Taupin and Elton John manage to work together so well for so many years

I found the task of fitting pre-written lyrics to a song extremely difficult, which is why I now shy away from collaborations of this nature... until I find the right person!

[flossie]

This is a really interesting thread!   

It is strange to write music to words from which you have,to, to some extent, create a meter.  I think you may have to go back and forth a bit with your lyricist, if you have found a rhythm for a part of the song, for instance, which does not fit with the lyrics, or else come up with some cack lyrics whilst you are developing the musical masterpiece  song and then ask the lyricist to transform them after the event.

I think elton and bernie (can I call them that?!!!!) must have been very collaborative I just don't see how it can work any other way unless Elton was a mind reader!
Ii have once written lyrics first and wrote a song which was quite different at the time to what I had written before.  It is a scary exercise (because it is so unknown - you just don't know what the bloody melody is, you have to create the rhythm to some extent with the lyrics). I haven't done this in a year I just want back to my tried and tested. Having said that I just wrote one with songsthatcry and it is one of my faves so....!

[The Corsair]

I never write without a melody an everything in mind. When it comes to working with the band though it's not fair to go 'you do this, you do this' because I already have it worked out in my head. What I do is find which lyrics fit best. Sometimes I re-write a set a bit so that it fits but speed and delivery stay basically the same.

This is starting to change, though, as I get better with the instruments I have available as now I can write a riff and say 'this goes with this, any ideas?'

[mihkay]

I with Schav on this one.

It's an issue with me that
1.  I don't really listen to lyrics until I like the tune and
2. The few times I have looked at lyrics posted I've found that I can't really get a grip on the structure.

I agree that lyrics do not have to have an obvious rhyming system or meter, but to get started it would be nice to have a clue.  

I've tried in the past to generate ideas by starting with a structure.
For example. The first line will have 12 syllables, the second 7, the third 9 the forth 8 etc sorta random........ and the rhyming scheme will be A B C B C A.
The results can read well but musically, for me, always seems to end up like Lloyd Cole or Fish from Marillion.
So it can be done but it's not either easy or very musically neat.

I understand that it may be a compromise for wordy types to try tweek their prose but from my side it can be tricky getting a handle on a seemingly formless set of words.
Perhaps a coloured fonts to indicate repeats or rhyming schemes. Or just spacing the words out consistently so a pattern would emerge?
There is a huge difference between Aria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aria and resitative.http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recitative....and it's a darn site easier and more interesting writing music for the former.