[Schavuitje]

There are always selfish people in the world... the one's that won't let anyone out in traffic, the one's that push in, in queue's,
the one's that sit down on a bus when there's an old lady struggling to stand, the one's that feel everything they want is important and
no one else is, the one's that don't do what anyone else wants because what they want is more important. Usually we call them teenagers.
But there is a lot more of them these days it seems and they are all growing into utter self-absorbed, shallow, dickheads as adults.
I know this to be true because my partner has to teach the arrogant little window-licking Mo Fo's at college every single day with their minus I.Q's.

 So nice one dude... You made it. You won the I'm just like all the other tossers who seem to be allowed to grow into adulthood these days  Well done  

( Think you were a little too easy on him there Estreet   He's a big boy... He's not stupid. He knows the crack. ) I'm all for euthenasia! 

[jasonwick]

are you high??? haha    I really have little to no idea what Schavuitje is talking about!!!
 Although I  think he is making a lot of odd assumptions.

I don't really involve myself in an online world, i much prefer reality..tbh I find it all a bit confusing actually.. and this all only goes to prove that to me.
Im off for a large single malt with my feet up.. Perhaps Im too old and confused for forums 

good bye cruel world 

[Schavuitje]

Bye. Enjoy the single malt  

I often go off at a tangent. I like myself that way. It stops me and anyone esle from taking me too seriously, and my humour has many different
faces although it can be rather dark sometimes  

But the message is in there.
You get out what you put in.
You say you don't really like to join in with online people or forums. What are you doing here then?

You don't like to join in. Which basically translates as, you can't be arsed to put any real effort into building any friendships, into supporting other artists...
 Just like to sit back and let everyone else do all the posting, reviewing and let everyone else be a friendly voice, let eveyone else spend thier time investing it into
others.
 And then only ever have a tangible presence when you have got something YOU want other people to spend thier time on. When you have got something you want people to Listen to, review, download...
 Why should you expect anyone to do what you don't do?
You say it's hard to get even friend to download your stuff... Maybe that is something you should ponder on. Why is it even your friends find it difficult to give you thier time?

So don't sneer at anyone on these forums, who enjoys being a part of THIS community as well as having REAL lives, because in todays world virtual friend are becoming more and more important.
People grow musically on these forums. People leave here feeling motivated and uplifted because people have taken the time to show a little friendship and a little support and a helping hand in the right direction. People of all abilities.

If you understood the value of two-way relationships, of give and take, you wouldn't be so confused... about a number of things.

Just wanted to add that Estreet had every right to say something. And because he is someone who actually does invest his time into these forums I will support him. And he's right!
I think I just have a lower tolerance level 

[jasonwick]

good point, well made...
definitely no sneering intended at all...

I find myself now trying to prove to a complete stranger that I am very far from self centered after simply offering a free link for an album of self written songs on a songwriting forum, of which yes I do not take a very active roll. I didn't see that as a big problem but obviously it is. I do however download shed loads of DIY free music when i see links, although I rarely offer my opinion.
I am a member of 4 forums, 3 musical and one for my car!  I dabble in all 4 but do not as i say get very involved.

[mihkay]

Perhaps the best place for the free give-away might have been "The Bar" rather than the "Reviews Forum".

I know that I find it hard to keep up with all the songs posted for review here, and even harder to provide meaningful criticism on them all, so occasionally I too can get a bit frustrated with what could appear to be just a promo piece. Whether it is meant to be or not. 

After all I can get tired and emotional when I'm on line, and I'm probability not the only one. So, just a little care is required when considering what this forum is here for, and posting in the right thread.

[Ramshackles]

Best thread I've read today. And I've been on the insane gear geek forums. 

Top marks for dishing it out and still remaining gleeful schav hehe...

Didnt listen to the tracks I'm afraid...if it's free it must be rubbish, right? No? 

[estreet]

Actually I did listen to some and it's pretty good. He would have probably got a lot of support for it had he gone about it a different way.

[Schavuitje]

Actually I had a listen too hahaha.
I thought the one I listened to was nearly good

I think estreet has a good point actually. If you would have offered it to people in the Bar it would have made a difference.

Ramshackles offered his E.P Which I didn't download for free but actually BOUGHT because he is a regular on these

forums and offers much of his time ( just look at the SIZE of his feedback. When he gives you feeback you need a good half hour :p)

to supporting other members.

For me that review section is sacred ground. You put something in there because A - You are new to the forums and might not have done much reviewing yet

but intend to. B - You're already a supporter.

It isn't the place to pop in everytime you have something, when you don't bother with supporting other people.

Usually people who do that get ingnored. People soon get used to who those people are and stop reviewing thier songs. Then they usually fade away of thier own

accord. No harsh words needed.

But a whole album in the "Reviews" section when you never review anything... You may as well just take a good swing and kick us all in the fairy cabbages!


I remember that even though Ramshackles is a very respected member of this community, and even though he posted his E.P. in the Bar, he was almost appologetic about

sticking it up there.

He had no reason to be. He puts enough effort in. And people were genuinly interested in it because of the time people get to spend with him virtually. Talking the toot, reviewing,

being reviewed. He has a presence basically and that makes all the difference.

The reviews section probably gets the most hits, but the bar was the place this should have been put.

There are a lot of people who nip in here to offer us all kinds of songs, demo's, programs, services that will make all our lives much better... and then they are gone... and so most

of the time no one takes any notice of them.

Becomming popular and getting poeople to like your music enough to download it isn't just about putting the music there for people to hear. It's about making friends.

You have to invest time in people.

Even people running for president have to do that!

That's why a lot of top artists INVEST thier time in TWEETING and stuff like that. The more accessibly and fan friendly you are... Need I go on?

[Dutchbeat]

calm down, schavuitje (jij schobbejak)
think about your blood pressure

yes, you and e-street make an absolutely valid point
and i agree

on the other hand it is not the greatest crime...to put free music on a forum website for songwriters
and if it is good music, which it is in this case, that make the 'crime' forgiveable 

peace, brothers and sisters 

it was not for commercial purposes (I dislike the posts that are only commercial, and most of these we get in the Bar section)
this was about spreading good music (in my opinion)..for free

we are all songwiters (and humans) here 
 

[Schavuitje]

hmmm Have to dissagree. Even people giving stuff away fro free have a purpose for doing it. It is still advertising.

And why should people get to barge into a review section and do that?

BUT... Iv'e had my rant and whenever I hear your voice DB, I always feel a little softer inside 

I'm off to stroke some fluffy kittens 

[Dutchbeat]

very good Schavuitje!

gently caress those kittens...
don't kill them like you did last time, ok?

 

[The Corsair]

Sorry if I'm dropping more fluid on a fire that's almost out but why doesn't he have a right to post this here?

We can review the album and how it's put together, then break it down in to tracks ore just review a single track or whatever. Maybe this should have gone in another forum but why can't we treat it as though he wants reviews.

Also, get off the high horse and succumb to the part of you that is actually happy to just have some free stuff, in this case music (and IMO decent music at that). There's nothing wrong with just wanting something for free AND there's nothing wrong with giving something away for free for the sake of advertising.
Right now there is a Coca Cola truck giving away merchandise and drinks at my university. The queue is enormous and is blocking a fair bit of space. It's probably not actually the best place for it to be in terms of letting students move around easily but then that's what I should be annoyed at, not the fact that Coca Cola are giving things away for free just to further themselves in the market nor should I be angry that people are actually queuing up to get this free stuff.

Basically, music is for the most part very relevant to business. Even if a band isn't looking to make a profit they will inevitably need to get their music known to fulfill whatever goals they have set out to achieve. If they want to spread their message they need listeners, if they just love playing gigs they need fans. In order to get these bases of consumers they need to advertise and market themselves one way or another otherwise they wouldn't get anywhere.

Tell me, how many conversations have you had, Schavuitje, where you've mentioned you make music? That's promotion really, whether it's to better your own position in establishing a friendship or relationship or, I'd think more likely, to better your bands position by having them go home and look for you on YouTube or Facebook or whatever.


In summary, Jasonwick has every right to post free music in this particular forum on this particular site and he can use whatever tone he likes. It's entirely, literally entirely up to you whether you listen to it, download it or even pay any attention to it. If you think he's done something wrong then let that be reflected in his album downloads and don't waste your time ridiculing him.


End rant

[Schavuitje]

I think you need to read a little more carefully mate.

No one said he shouldn't put it on the site. And no one said that advertising your free music is wrong.
Of course. Every one of us wants to be heard and of course even having conversations on here is a kind of advertising I suppose.

But there is a way of doing it. There is a place for it to.

Now it could be looked at as a review. Like you said. But asking people to review a whole album, when you never spend any time helping,
reviewing others, is a bit much.

That is where it's just taking the piss a little. I spend every day helping to support these forums, commenting, reviewing, helping people out - this means I gain a lot from it
too, and rightfully so. I earn my songs (Which I don't flood the forums with) reviews because I put effort into other people.

So no... I don't this he has the right to be a member of this forum, never give support and then ask for a whole album review.

And if it's not a review and it's just a download for free. Then it should be in the bar.


Oh and there's not just me who believes in these forum etiquette's. New members get told all the time how it's being a bit over eager

and a bit pushy, rude, impolite... However you want to say it, to throw a shitload of songs in one post.

So if he had put any effort into being a supportive member of this forum, he would have known.

And... I am not ridiculing anyone. I just have the balls to say what's right.


You don't put your feet up in a strangers house. If he'd been an active, supportive member of these forums, it wouldn't be a

strangers house...

[James Nighthawk]

I haven't posted on this thread, but I have watched it develop with increasing interest.

I will say a couple of things now... I don't think the initial poster would have ever thought his post would have turned into a hot topic on the do's and do not's of forum usage for self promotion. We all, to some degree, enjoy the pleasure of having an extended audience by using this forum. But I also agree that with any forum its about the give and take, which is why I am sure many people ignored the post. Had it been provided by a cherished forum member it would have likely had been embraced. I am only relatively new here, and I have found very quickly that by reviewing and involving myself on the boards I have been welcomed very warmly indeed!

Ignoring the odd flippant/cheeky remark, it is fantastic to see that people on this forum have strong opinions, and are balanced enough to voice them intelligently. Both the arguments for and against have merit and are argued well. Strong debate at its finest, and as we all know debate breaks new ground and should be cherished. It is just so odd to see this happen on the internet, where idiocy thrives on a diet of bad attitude, grammar and syntax.

I've said it before. You are all freaks. And long may that last  

[Schavuitje]

Freaks 

Debate is good.

Manners are good.

Wish everybody had them.

I lost mine in this thread.

For that I appologise, here publicly and not privately. Sorry 

I do however stand by my arguement.