Does Anyone Actually Like Vocoders??????????

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Songsmith

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« on: March 01, 2012, 02:18:45 PM »
I personally don't, awful bloody things & I think they should all be smashed at source, what about anyone else???

estreet

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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 02:27:40 PM »
Ive got one built in the MicroKorg. Can't say I've used it for anything except trying to emulate 'Sparky's Magic Piano' but the day may come.
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Dutchbeat

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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 05:06:30 PM »
I like them, and i am also talking about the one build in the microkorg....

i don't think you guys want to hear with i did with that? (don't get me started....)

But i some of these poppy teenage records they are used in ways that is horrible, but it is great fun to have your fingers on keys directing the notes in your voice while you sing, really weird but also one of the most intense experiences for a synthesizer player

one hand on the keys, singing and other hand twisting some filter knob, yeahhh

that cheers me up ::)


Schavuitje

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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 12:01:27 AM »
As a tool for being creative and producing an unusual sound or effect for a song - Fine I would think.  :)

There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.

Songsmith

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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 12:39:43 AM »
What an idiot I am, thanks to estreet for jolting my fuddled brain cells, I mean Autotune not Vocoder. It is the relentless use of them nowadays on vocals that turns me off!!!

So unreserved apologies lads for ranting on about the wrong thing. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Schavuitje

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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 12:58:25 AM »
No that's it now. Go on... get out! hahaha
There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 01:55:58 AM »
(Deep Breath....  ;) )

Autotuner should be viewed for what it is. An effect.

If used as such, it can be great. In dance music like Basement Jaxx/Daft punk the robotic edge fits the general aesthetic and can enhance the general electronic nature. In some pop it can provide a wonderful clash of human vs machine, when autotuned and natural vocals are run alongside one another.

When used as an aide to correct bad vocals, I almost always dislike it.
 
Note: If, like on a site like this, it is because the vocalist is weak and wants to "show" the melody more correctly, then fine. If he/she is aware their strength is in writing and not performing, its a useful tool to help them out.  But a SINGER songwriter should be able to do both, lets me fair here! Commercial releases or those aiming to be so should not rely on autotuning effects to do the hard work.

Pop music has recently swung into this odd place, where R&B/Pop Music/Boy/Girl-Bands HAVE to be tuned to the nth degree. It is aurally exhausting and people either hear it and hate or, or cannot quite understand what is going on but still feel a disconnect. Its prevalence is bewildering. Or perhaps, at 28, I am just far too old for chart music! An argument can also be made that pop stars are spending less time in the vocal booth and more time on TV/magazine shoots... the money is more and more in the promotion with "pop" music than in sales (but that is a WHOLE other conversation!)

Equally, the use of autotuner is sneaking into other styles of music.... Autotuner has two main edit buttons. SPEED and CHOOSINESS. Speed is how fast the note is bent into pitch from the incorrect pitch, and choosiness is how much leniency the tuner allows (i.e. if aiming for middle A at 440hz, allow a +/- of a few hertz.). Using it at a reduced level on both will tidy up a ropey vocal without sounding too robotic. However, producers ears and general music ficionados are rarely fooled. And again the "something is not quite right" here effect will hit even the layman...

As such long live the neo-folk movement. Laura Marling/Mumford and Sons/Noah and the whale and their ilk are showing the British market that naturally playing will always be around. And of course all other styles that let music stay "real"!

Vocoding is another effect entirely and far less easily abused (partly as it is far more difficult to employ!). The confusion in day to day usage stems from the "Voco" part, so people often say vocoder when talking about pitch-edited-vocals.

Hope that gets my view across neatly :)
 
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Koolkat

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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2012, 09:22:43 AM »
Does Anyone Actually Like Vocoders? NO! So overused as to be painful. Should have stopped with Cher and never heard again.


Schavuitje

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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 10:14:42 AM »
Ahem... No, never mind  :P
There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.

Songsmith

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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 12:05:26 PM »
No that's it now. Go on... get out! hahaha

Lol  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ramshackles

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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 12:44:25 PM »
(Deep Breath....  ;) )

Autotuner should be viewed for what it is. An effect.

If used as such, it can be great. In dance music like Basement Jaxx/Daft punk the robotic edge fits the general aesthetic and can enhance the general electronic nature. In some pop it can provide a wonderful clash of human vs machine, when autotuned and natural vocals are run alongside one another.

When used as an aide to correct bad vocals, I almost always dislike it.
 
Note: If, like on a site like this, it is because the vocalist is weak and wants to "show" the melody more correctly, then fine. If he/she is aware their strength is in writing and not performing, its a useful tool to help them out.  But a SINGER songwriter should be able to do both, lets me fair here! Commercial releases or those aiming to be so should not rely on autotuning effects to do the hard work.

Pop music has recently swung into this odd place, where R&B/Pop Music/Boy/Girl-Bands HAVE to be tuned to the nth degree. It is aurally exhausting and people either hear it and hate or, or cannot quite understand what is going on but still feel a disconnect. Its prevalence is bewildering. Or perhaps, at 28, I am just far too old for chart music! An argument can also be made that pop stars are spending less time in the vocal booth and more time on TV/magazine shoots... the money is more and more in the promotion with "pop" music than in sales (but that is a WHOLE other conversation!)

Equally, the use of autotuner is sneaking into other styles of music.... Autotuner has two main edit buttons. SPEED and CHOOSINESS. Speed is how fast the note is bent into pitch from the incorrect pitch, and choosiness is how much leniency the tuner allows (i.e. if aiming for middle A at 440hz, allow a +/- of a few hertz.). Using it at a reduced level on both will tidy up a ropey vocal without sounding too robotic. However, producers ears and general music ficionados are rarely fooled. And again the "something is not quite right" here effect will hit even the layman...

As such long live the neo-folk movement. Laura Marling/Mumford and Sons/Noah and the whale and their ilk are showing the British market that naturally playing will always be around. And of course all other styles that let music stay "real"!

Vocoding is another effect entirely and far less easily abused (partly as it is far more difficult to employ!). The confusion in day to day usage stems from the "Voco" part, so people often say vocoder when talking about pitch-edited-vocals.

Hope that gets my view across neatly :)
 

UGH, mumford and sons faux folk/folk for NME readers. I caught a concert of theirs and would not be surprised at all if their recordings were tuned a bit...
lol.
I agree with James that it is very hard to 'tune' bad vocals transparently. However, it can be a good aide for vocals that are already good. Home listening has become so critical, 100% perfect vocals are expected....But if you are just after in pitch vocals (and not the 'effects' autotune/vocoders can give) then there are other ways. I much prefer vocal comping to the nth degree. Our songs are vocal/harmony heavy; no autotune involved - just repeating over and over and taking the best takes which in the end does the same thing as tightening up a couple of loose notes here and there with autotune. But it keeps the emotion in the performance and its good practice :D

Laura Marling though is a stunning singer...plus its hard to 'transparently' tune such voices seeing as she purposefully goes out of tune/speaks lines in many of her songs...


Depends on the style of music. Our brand of 'neo-folk' and that of laura marling, fleet foxes, midlake, etc etc attracts a different kind of audience that appreciate a more 'old style' of performance - good musicianship and singing. They are gonna pay attention when you play. Fleet foxes gigs are among the quietest I have been to in terms of audience noise. You are gonna get called out in an instant if your CD sounds like one thing and then you go up and perform and cant sing very well :P


The 'effect' of vocoder/autotune is used purposefully all the time. I hate it. But Im not sure if it is the effect specifically or just the style of music it goes with. Then again, it would sound s***t in a folk song....

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 12:51:34 PM »
I saw Fleet foxes last summer. They were surprisingly loud I thought! Great set though. And I have Laura Marling tickets for this week. Can't wait. Have tried for the last three tours to get tickets but they sell like hot cakes!

And comping should be a given for everyone! Best "real" take of each line > processed vocals anyday  ;D
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Ramshackles

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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 01:11:54 PM »
I saw Fleet foxes last summer. They were surprisingly loud I thought! Great set though. And I have Laura Marling tickets for this week. Can't wait. Have tried for the last three tours to get tickets but they sell like hot cakes!

And comping should be a given for everyone! Best "real" take of each line > processed vocals anyday  ;D
The audience or the band? I was talking about the audience....through the songs where it is just the lead singer on guitar you couldve heard a pin drop...
It's in those moments aswell that you hear that the voice on the record is just his voice, no tuning. And nailing it (in terms of tuning) when you are having the stress/excitement/tiredness of playing live and being on tour has got to be much harder than nailing it in the studio. Pretty stunning! Thats why our preparation for playing live has so far centred only on rehearsing all our convoluted harmonies :D
Enjoy laura marling!

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 01:19:59 PM »
With you now. Yes.... someone was shushed out of the arena for talking over an intro. A momument to British manners  ;D ;D

And his (and the bands) vocals were excellent. A great old school band with beautiful songs
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 08:58:19 AM »
Oh damn! I thought this thread was about vocoders, and I was just going to say YES!!! Love them, think every single song should be recorded with at least 10,000 of them. Oh what joy hahaha!!!

Evil things and the autotuning malarkey! can't pitch? keep your mouth shut then!