[estreet]

Hi. Let me say first off that I'm a newbie member of not much longer than a week's standing. I hope you won't find it presumptuous of me to air my first impressions of this site.

First off, I think it's a brilliant idea and more than that a necessary idea. There are huge limitations to asking for an opinion of one of your songs from either fans, band members, friends or family. Their opinion is only sometimes truthful for a multitude of reasons including bias or 'not wanting to upset you'. Therefore, I think it's essential that people offer their genuine opinions here, although I admit that that is fraught with difficulty too, because music is such a subjective thing.

I have found that when we play gigs with our original band (eden), people who have never seen you before seem to suffer from a compulsion to come up and tell you who they think you sound like. This became so fascinating to me at one point that I started making a list of the names people mentioned - and apart from the fact that it became a very bizarre list - I noticed  that many of them were people whom I either loathed or didn't own a single album by! My point here is that everyone judges stuff against the reference points they know - therefore, if you only own albums by Abba and Dire Straits then I guess we sound like Dire Straits (a band I can't stand mostly). So you have to be critical of the criticism and its provenance. Therefore, if someone makes an interesting comment about my stuff here  then I often take another listen to their music so that I can see where they are coming from and how much of what they have said to take aboard. This is all good though - you can do that here.

My main criticism of what goes on here would be that there are a handful of people who do the bulk of reviewing whilst the majority expect feedback without giving very much in return. Now I admit that sometimes I just leave some posts because I just don't have a lot to say about them... that doesn't mean I think they are rubbish or anything like that, but it may be a type of music that I'm not into  - or it may just be that I don't have anything useful to say. I think it's counter-productive to TRY and say something if you don't have a strong opinion because in LOOKING for something to say you will probably end up saying something that isn't helpful. Nonetheless ...

I think that as a rule of thumb, people should try and post 5-10 reviews (of more than a couple of words) for every song that they post themselves. I don't think that's too much to ask and I think it could be policed at a very low level.

Anyhow - glad to be here and thanks to those who have given their time to comment on my stuff. It's been genuinely interesting and occasionally inspirational to hear your work. Cheers!

Carl
 

[Ramshackles]

ok..

[tone]

Hi Estreet

Thanks for taking the time to think about and share your experience on the forum so far. The idea of applying rules over reviewing/ posting songs here has been discussed more than once, but I always come back to the same resolution. Creating a rule works against the greater good of the forum, for a couple of reasons. First is that people will feel pushed into commenting on work they'd normally remain silent on - often for the reasons you stated in your post. This would have a negative net effect in my opinion, filling up the forum with padding, waffle and general flab. Secondly, I think those who post a lot of work and don't spend time taking part in the community soon tire of the lack of attention their work attracts. Anyone who regularly reads or posts knows which members really care about the community and which members are just here hoping to receive compliments. After a while, the more selfish posters tend to become less active because people stop replying to their threads. It's a self-policing system. It just takes a while to get used to who's who.

Thanks again

[Schavuitje]

hehehe This keeps coming up 

I had the same conversation with Tone many moons ago and many have since. And you are right estreet, but so is Tone.

I also found it quite selfish of some people and still do. But when you've been here a bit longer you'll see the cycle it goes through.

And Tone is right, when you spend enough time here ( and as you have ALREADY noticed ) you get used to who the real forum

supporters are and who are just here for themselves. Those that truly support other people here are the first people I take time for.

The ones who show enough times that they are only interested in themselves do tend to dissapear when they are barely getting a reaction to

what they post. It really does police itself.

I always give newcomers the benefit of the doubt for a few reasons. They are usually eager to be heard, which is understandable. And of course

they may feel that their own opinion on others work is worthless. Which of course is far from being true.

People who flood the forums with work usually get told by someone or they may have just one piece reviewed and the rest ignored. These are things you notice

and I kinda like that it works that way.

The coolest thing is that while the users drift away, there is a steadily growing number of regular supporters and contributers. So the heart is growing strong.

I'm really happy that you care so much. It means your probably going to be a stayer hehe 

[estreet]

All good points. I can see that trying to enforce or police a 5 for 1 rule could result in what's been said here - a surplus of meaningless posts. Nonetheless, it's a rule I've vaguely imposed on myself (I haven't actually been counting) and I have looked for songs where I do have a definite opinion. I certainly don't feel I've posted with nothing to say yet, so maybe it is a ratio people could just bear in mind as a minimum without it becoming a rule. Another rule of thumb I've mildly imposed on myself is to not post another song until the previous one has dropped off the first page. I did break this self-imposed 'rule' once to post a song that I thought illustrated a comment I'd made about someone else's song. Is this fair enough? Please say if you ever feel I put too much stuff up.

[Ramshackles]

I agree with Tone. Guys who just post up songs and dont participate in the 'community' dont get much reviews and soon get bored....

A pet peeve of mine is noobs sometimes sounding off against older members....usually if the older members havent been active for a while and come back to a fairly different forum than when they last looked. It thankfully hasnt really happened on this forum, but it does a lot on other bigger ones...
We seem to have had a real flurry of new participating members recently (right at a time where I'm not on much lol!)...I think the best thing a newbie can do is take a bit of time just to 'lurk'...Look through the forum, get a feel of what it is about, who contributes a lot, what is expected/talked about in the main sections, or if there are threads already started for what you want to say...
Of course, it's hard to have the discipline or time to do that....

A really nice thing that happens occasionally is when a new guy resurrects some song from the depths of the review section...especially if it is one I've commented on! Gives a chance to listen to good songs I've forgotten about again, from a different perspective, or see how much the songwriter has improved since

[Songsmith]

I have just read through these reviews on this subject & as I am also a 'newcomer' I tend to echo estreets sentiments. Saying this I also understand what  Schavuitje is saying & the so called selfish users will police themselves out of the community.

It is such a shame that some members don't get it. I think this site is a very useful tool to have in the box & if used in the right spirit it is invaluable!!

[Kafla]

This comes up a lot

Seriously I have learned its best to let the forum police itself

The good guys work with the good guys

I have been really struggling to review recently
- although I am in the hotel bar in France enjoying a lovely Bordeaux at the moment ;-)

[Schavuitje]

This is the 2nd time I have called you a jammy b****** today Kaf! Haha wish I was there 

I like what you said Ramshackles, I also enojy that... When a newcomer finds something he/she likes and trawls through the older posts, for the

same reasns you do.

One new trend in the forums which I don't like and dissaprove of is people putting links to their own songs when they review

someone esle's and then after reviewing asking them to visit the link. If there is a post, and you contribute, people will review your stuff.

For me that's being a bit pushy and a stretching of etiquette. I think someone's post should be theirs with no links to other peoples posts in it.

If others feel the same then maybe something should be kindly said abut that, but I still think self policing is best for the rest of what has been

mentioned here.