[cowparsleyman]

Keeping the listener interested in you song is a tricky thing, especially these days when everything is so immediate. Some listeners only give you a few seconds of their time, an you have to convince them that it's worth hanging on, but how do you keep 'em listening?

Jerry Coker (Author of "Improvising Jazz" - a great book btw) explains that if what you play is 50% predictable then you're on the right track, what he means is that if they are more than 50% predictable then the audience can guess what's coming and they'll go off for a pint, but if it's less than 50% predictable then they ain't got a clue what's coming next and go lukewarm pretty quickly (like me at the Eberhard Weber gig in Basildon one rainy November evening)

Anyway...It's very common to have guitars sounding the same all the way through a rock song, this tends to make the piece sound flat and predictable, and it's necessarily fixed by adding hooks and solos and stuff, it can be more subtle than that, if possible use a different guitar on the Left track to the Right, if doubling rock guitars, a Telecaster L and a Les Paul R, stick em through the same amp sim, especially if they are playing the same riff, that works well, if the amp sim is so different each side that can sound distracting. An alternative is putting the same guitar through 2 different amps, I've found that the same guitar through the same amp using different pickups doesn't work too well.

Distorted guitars are hot and chunky but can muddy the backdrop, so wind em back a tad and use a sub mix buss to gauge the level very carefully, maybe put a parametric eq, with rolling off the muddy frequencies over the submix buss channel, it might sound very odd as a submix, but it'll sound better when the drums and bass are using those bass frequencies.

As for maintaining interest of guitars in solos, the de facto approach is to add reverb and delay, and in the 80's, Chorus and flange. I'm going through a phase (no pun intended) of using a tremolo effect where I would have maybe used a searing Lead Solo, seems to create some nice tension.

Anyway, just a few pointers, hope they help someone.

Rich

[adamfarr]

Yes, sounds about right. Speaking for me I always feel tempted to write obvious chord progressions and to cut and paste verse and chorus performances. Good to try to avoid.

Like the tremolo idea!

[Boydie]

@cowparsleyman

Really interesting timing Rich

Since lockdown has ended my cover band has never been busier and we have been gigging at least every weekend (often multiple gigs in a weekend)

My 2 x 12 valve amp died, and since I had been using my Helix Floor modeller more and more for life gigs, I decided to take the plunge and move to a full modelling setup for live gigs with a Line6 212 Powercab, which can be an FRFR monitor to allow the Helix to do ALL of the amp and cab modelling (which gives the sound of a guitar amp being mic’d and recorded) - OR - the Powercab can do speaker emulations of a range of well know speakers to give an “amp in the room” feel with different flavours of speaker emulation

I am thinking in a similar vein to your post, that even though the band only has one guitar - the options with the Helix and the stereo 2x12 Powercab mean that I have the option to send different guitar tones (different amps and effects) to each separate speaker in the 2x12 cab. Although they are quite close together I understand the separation is quite good - and I can definitely vouch for the surprisingly wide stereo effects from a single 2x12 cabinet

I feel a bit “dirty” moving away from real tube amps to meddling but as I get older the advantages of a simple, lighter, more convenient setup that will give the punters (listeners) more of what they want (ie the guitar tones of the covers sound more like what was originally recorded) outweigh the “tube amp purist” in me

[cowparsleyman]

@Boydie - Sorry to hear of your loss, man these things hit a aceman really hard, but often something better comes from it…Before covid I went for a Fender amp which isn’t my thing at all, but I’m getting all the sounds i want from the pedal board, I’m not likely to gig seriously again, so it’s just a self help indulgent trip.

I’d be interested to hear of your final setup. From Diezel to fender champ in a trice….

I do use the two notes wall of sound cab sim where appropriate.

And yes I’m an all tube amp guy too, and sims for recording, although i do tend to mic up my bass amp for funk and slap, haven’t managed to find that sound yet in a bass sim.

Best if luck with giving the punters what they want.

[cowparsleyman]

@Boydie - would 2 x cabs work, and feed each amp separately?or could you bung em through the pa and feed x Left and y right, ( i wouldn’t do that but Id consider the former.

Or buy a 345 Stereo…?and feed each pup to a different amp?

[Boydie]

@cowparsleyman

I had to make a quick decision as my amp died and I had a few days until we could get together for a rehearsal before the gig the next weekend

I did consider ALL options - including multiple tube amps for a stereo rig, Wet/dry options, another tube amp etc. etc.

My thought process that got me to where I needed up was...

Separate cabs could give an epic stereo spread - HOWEVER, for live use I determined that this would only provide a limited “sweet spot” for the audience and band setup wise there is limited opportunities to put the cabs full “left and right” anyway

If I did want full stereo I could use the PA, but I think the same issues apply

I LOVE the sound of real tube amps - but any and all issues “on the road” have been due to tubes, or heat caused by tubes, so I am hoping the modelling may provide a better option

The quality of modelling today is just INSANE! I can go from a lovely Fender clean/breakup sound to a full on dirty Marshall or Boogie at the touch of a footswitch

I found myself relying more and more on the Helix Floor for modelling the pre-amps and just using the loop return on a Blackstar Series One 45w combo - so thought I would take the final plunge and go with an FRFR, but still have the option to use it as an “amp in the room” with the speaker sim that the 212 Powercab can pull off

I use the Line6 Helix Floor connected to the Line6 Powercab 212 via the L6 Link - which means one cable carries the stereo audio and can control the Powercab - eg change the virtual speakers per preset or change from speaker sim to FRFR - so I can go from rocking a Marshall with Celestion greenbacks, a Fender with Celestion Vintage 30s to an acoustic sim using the full range mode

I am still at the beginning of a VERY steep learning curve - with lots of different options - but for consistency, convenience and quality I am very happy with this option for live gigging

[cowparsleyman]

@Boydie - I think you made the right decision, and a very interesting point about the sweet spot, never thought of that to be honest.

You're right it's insane how good they are.

[Boydie]

@cowparsleyman - I still fee dirty though!