Track Loudness

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Wicked Deeds

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« on: November 29, 2020, 02:03:58 PM »
I can get it but the track loses it's soul.  Does anyone else agree? :(

Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2020, 05:56:17 PM »
If you are just using a limiter to get your track loud then yes - this can lead to an end product with no dynamics, which can lack soul

However, lots of little things in your approach to mixing can add up to ensure you can get a loud mix with lots of dynamics (primarily use of compression (or not) on each track and use of EQ

There are then lots of techniques in mastering a track that can get it to commercial levels, whilst still retaining dynamics

There are way to many list - but any guides on mixing or mastering have this goal in mind
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Wicked Deeds

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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2020, 06:09:06 PM »
Thanks Boydie,

I have two approaches to recording and producing, one is to be really meticulous about recording a good signal and taking my time to mix  the other is quite chaotic, when I urgently record ideas and work them into a production without paying enough attention.  My track 'Mr Heartache' was the latter kind lol. I think the creative process takes over a times and I suffer for it. Sometimes I compress the whole mix on the master channel and then add a limiter just after the compressor. Increasingly, I put a multipressor and a little reverb on the master track and my productions seem to breathe so much better and come to life.  To be honest this is an area I could do with devoting a little more study to but then, I keep getting carried away, enjoying the songwriting and instrumentation part. Aaarrrghhh,
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 06:10:42 PM by Wicked Deeds »

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2020, 07:16:31 PM »
@Wicked Deeds - as with anything it takes time, understanding  and practice

It really depends on a number of variables, genre, vibe, destination site, most importantly mix.

Yes a master buss comp followed by a limter works well, for some genres, but fo high dynamic range acoustic songs it might be better to retain as much DR as possible, every db of DR is precious, listeners will say things like ‘detailed’ ‘ intimate’ engaging...

Too little DR is flat , uninteresting.

Some mixes don’t need any mastering loudness increases.

Most popular streaming site compensate both ways for loudness, expanding the too quiet, compressing too loud, one can use this to good effect...

If you want to master it I suggest leaving the final mix for a couple of weeks before listening and reduce the y axis to 6db .

Hope this helps

R


Wicked Deeds

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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 07:34:41 PM »
Thanks Rich,

I'd like to add also that the house that I live in is bloody awful! It is an acoustic nightmare. A single glazed property with hard surfaces above, below and to all four walls with no soft furnishings.  It's a corner house where traffic whizzes by night and day. I have therefore abandoned the meticulous approach that I once employed because It's  is totally pointless trying achieve what I once achieved with ease. My newest recordings hide a multitude of problems associated with my environment. It is so bad. I can't wait to move on from rented properties and buy a new house later next year.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 07:41:36 PM by Wicked Deeds »

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 08:08:53 PM »
@Wicked Deeds - I wish you luck in your home hunting.

Thats one of the reasons I mix with cans, they are repeatable and after a few mixes I know what I need to do to get a good mix.

Btw I live right under a flight path...10km from the airport...planes come rightover our garden, which I quite like...apart from the pollution, it’s quite interesting, from Concorde to Galaxies, from Spitfires to Typhoons. Last week a DC3 flew over.

Yip good cans are great., my mid fields  are just superb.

Anyway catch you later Man.

Cawproductions

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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2020, 09:39:37 PM »
Hi Guys,
I am gunna stick my neck out here...

On my Mix buss I add slate tape emulation, Slate console emulation and a limiter with +6db of gain applied.
Whooaa, you are a crazy man I hear ya say....That might be true....BUT

As I am mixing, I am applying volume and pan settings through the final chain and therefore can make educated decisions based on the final loudness.

This was a tip of gained from Steven Slate, Ok, he doesnt apply the final limiter gain but that was from another guy...
I was experiencing the same with dynamic crushing when I just ramped up the limiter at the end...but not with the above method as I am always watching the volume and listening for dynamic range.

One extra note, I always leave a little headroom to add a bus comp and some linear EQ, matching etc.

Hope this helps

Not the only way to get the job done.

Good luck

Boydie

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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2020, 08:40:36 AM »
@Cawproductions

I have said this many times - due to the advances in CPU speeds, and computer/software tech etc, and the fact everything can be done “in-the-box”, has completely rewritten the old rules for writing - recording - production - mixing - mastering

This use to be a predominantly linear process in expensive recording studios, often with different people with different skills (artist, studio tech/sound engineer for setting mics etc., producer, mixing engineer, mastering engineer)

Now this is often done by one person in their bedroom at home!

There are now opportunities to do everything in parallel- with the only limitation being computer power

I can see the merit in your approach (mixing “into” compressors and limiters) but I can’t help wondering if you potentially lose something in the mixing process

I personally really enjoy the various challenges and incremental improvements as the mix progresses - eg getting the mix sounding great in mono using mainly EQ, compression and reverb; then using stereo to place sounds in the stereo field, then using automation to make certain elements “pop”, and THEN applying mastering effects for the final polish

I tend to generally stick to this linear process to give me some “discipline” and milestones - eg now the recording is done I will move on to mixing, now that the mix is done I will move on to mastering

However, it is great that even at the final mixing stage I can decide to add a new part (guitar lick, vocal section etc.) by simply plugging in and hitting record at any time

If, when mastering, I notice the kick is too loud, or even out of time, I can just go straight to that track and fix it whilst mastering

These are AMAZING times to making music - it is just a shame that the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow has been stolen by Spotify!!
To check out my music please visit:

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Cawproductions

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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2020, 07:38:52 PM »
Totally agree @Boydie

I am always going into the mix to tweak/ add little bits etc, Only thing is you gotta know when to leave it alone...:-)

More than one way to skin a cat...to coin a phrase.