Ever thought about where you pick the guitar?

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cowparsleyman

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« on: September 24, 2020, 01:00:17 PM »
Before there were electric guitars the ways of altering the tone were rather limited, but it could be done, and it's drummed into you when playing Classical Guitar to consider this, so i'd just share it with you...

Sul Tasto = normal position, over the soundhole
Ponticello = right up by the bridge (Ponte = Bridge), much more trebley, as one would expect, but maybe you haven't given it too much thought on your acoustic playing, both strumming and picking.

I also sometimes strum right over the fretboard, I don't know what that is called, but it does give a superb sound for soft strumming.

There are 2 basic ways of plucking the string in Classical too, the Rest Stroke, this is used to bring out the melody line and the Free stroke which is pretty much a normal finger pick, so when you are playing something like a Fugue, the Rest stroke is the finger that highlights the melody, and the other fingers are doing the other 2 background lines..., it's pretty hard to do, but sounds great once learnt and looks easy as homemade apple pie, with custard.

This is only to let you know that there are loads of alternative tones available on your acoustic, that you might not have been aware of. I makes for a more interesting live performance.

Try it and let me know what you think...



Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2020, 01:27:47 PM »
I don't know if it is my own classical background prior to concentrating on electric guitar but I do consciously vary how and where I pluck or strum the strings

My particular favourites are....

"Tight Sound" - Picking near the bridge for a really "tight" trebly sound - eg tight Country type lines. I also find playing here is good to combine with "bends & volume swells" using the volume on the guitar to create a pseudo pedal steel sound

"Chicken Pickin'" - I tend to go nearer the bridge to get that Country Chicken Pickin' feel - where you hit the string "muted" slightly ahead of plucking it

Loose - when I want a particularly "loose and light" feel I tend move more toward the neck over the fretboard. I find this reduces the "attack" of the notes

"Snap Pluck" - I also often actually grab a string between the pick and forefinger and pluck it for increased attack and impact

"strength of picking" - Often overlooked but consciously varying the strength of how you pick strings helps creates dynamics and allows you to emphasise certain parts. I personally can't stand players that just play at a consistent level/strength (which I hear a lot!). I find Eric Clapton and Mark Knopfler have a particularly good "touch"
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CaliaMoko

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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2020, 04:19:05 PM »
I have thought about it. So far, though, I concentrate mostly on hitting the proper string and getting fretting fingers in the correct position. Not super successful at these yet. I do vary touch and tone, but mostly by accident.

PaulAds

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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2020, 11:35:04 PM »
I personally can't stand players that just play at a consistent level/strength (which I hear a lot!). I find Eric Clapton and Mark Knopfler have a particularly good "touch"

Ha ha! That's me, then :)

I do occasionally vary where and how I pick, or more likely strum... and understand the variations in sound that can be achieved...but mostly...especially when playing live...I just basically hit the strings harder when I feel more angry and just hit them quite hard when I feel more reasonable. Sometimes I hit them gently...but that'd probably be when I'm feeling sad...and I generally don't like feeling sad...so I avoid it.

I never heard a Clapton lick I'd care to hear again...regardless of how excellent he might be...and that's with somehow ignoring some of the ghastly racist shite that came out of his drug-addled gob. Knopfler was/is perhaps a great player...but I didn't think he had more than half a dozen really good songs to play.

I'd take a great song played ok over a naff song played brilliantly any day. Especially if it was being played brilliantly by a complete wanker.

"Wonderful tonight" and "Walk of life" would probably have got the shit kicked out of them if they'd been posted in "finished songs" . They're both awful anyway, as far as I'm concerned. I'd be embarrassed if I'd posted them. They might have made them £££s but that isn't everyone's motivation. Neither is adulation or impressing people. I'd probably go even further and suggest that anyone who's out to impress people with their playing either wants to give their ego a couple of weeks off or book an hour with the local samaritans in order to avoid a future major disappointment/disillusion situation. Yes...you'll feel good when people think you're great...but it'll never be enough to sustain your neediness.

It also brings up an interesting point about whether it'd be better to write a brilliant, flowery lyric that says nothing of any consequence whatsoever rather than a few clumsy, heartfelt words of integrity or wisdom.

Would it be better to write a great song that sold 0 copies ? Or some novelty bollocks that sold millions? Or more likely, something in-between that you didn't think was really what you believed in but thought it could make you a few quid?

Who's to say? Each to their own.

I guess it depends on what you're trying to do and why. I'm just trying to make it sound OK and be heard consistently at about the right volume level.

Imagine how quiet the woods would be if only the sweetest sounding birds were allowed to sing.

I spent too long typing this and worrying about offending anyone...but I eventually just clicked "post" and let it go...

heart of stone, feet of clay, knob of butter

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2020, 09:49:18 AM »
@PaulAds - Dig the post, Paul, Funny that you think very similarly to me about Clapton and Knopfler, never really got into their solos, or songs even, both seem very bland, especially knopfler.

I DO like Clapton playing on Kate Bush's Red Shoes Album track 'So it's love' in fact that's one of my favourite songs, he gets both the feel and the tone of his guitar spot on, the only other thing I like that he did was Crossroads. I think I took a dislike to him when he kind of openly supported Cocaine.

As for knopfler, I do like Private investigations and Romeo and Juliet, but nowt else, I don't see them as guitar heroes, for me Segovia, Hendrix Larry Carlton and Joe Pass are real player's players, and yip I pretty much dig their showoffiness, good to have a virtual poster on your bedroom wall type figure, who better than Andreas Segoivia, big ugly old fat bloke that  looks like a maths teacher with cumberland sausages for fingers, but boy could he play guitar (as some one once said)

I've seen enough really talented guitarists over the years to say that there are more than enough local players that could all do the guitar hero thing...many times I've gone up to players after a gig and said how much I appreciated their playing, buskers too, lots of them are really very good.

Back to the real world...

Boydie

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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2020, 12:13:55 PM »
@PaulAds

I referenced Clapton and Knopfler for “touch and dynamics” rather than technical prowess and song writing qualities

For Clapton check out the solo(s) for “Old Love” from the 24 Nights Albert Hall gigs - this is a masterclass in how to add dynamics and a “journey” to a solo

For Knopler I think “Brothers In Arms” has great dynamics and touch

I completely agree that there are “better” (hate that word) guitarists and would add to the ones listed by @cowparsleyman (who I completely agree with’) - Greg Koch (or Gregory Kochery), Ariel Posen, and Guthrie Govan, Martin Taylor, and of course Prince, as players who I particularly enjoy listening to
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Kafla

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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2020, 12:29:32 PM »
Oh man I haven’t even read the whole thread but wonderful tonight and walk of life aren’t good songs 🤣

Good grief 😵

P.s. did you know it’s was the girl from Shakespeare’s sister Marcella Detroit , that sang backing vocals on wonderful tonight ?


PaulAds

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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2020, 04:46:57 PM »
It's cool, @Boydie

I was just making the point that if you're playing a song someone doesn't like...they're probably not going to care how well you're playing it. I wouldn't, anyway.

Van Gogh was a much better painter than the kid who did my whole house from top to bottom for 500 quid 18 months ago...but that kid is definitely my favourite painter. And he still has both of his ears.

All good fun and interesting perspectives though.

I think I'm just easily unimpressed. I often say, partly in jest, that if a tune is too complicated to whistle, it's got too many notes in it.

I was at a talk-in with Rick Buckler of The Jam a couple of years back...and, when someone in the audience was bigging him up, he was a little embarrassed and said "Look, I wasn't the best drummer in the world" and I said "But you were the drummer in the best band in the world"

Off to give alas poor Eric another chance with that song you suggested :)

Cheers!
heart of stone, feet of clay, knob of butter