[cowparsleyman]

@MichaelA - I agree with Adam, of course they can be sold like paintings, but I guess you would be more likely to buy a Lake District painting in the Lake District, than in Cornwall. So there is a direct association there.

With music it's a bit different, there's a bit more effort required, you have to spend time to listen to the songs, there's allsorts of factors that'll put someone off a song, the voice, the lyrics, the mix...with a painting it's immediate, no time investment, other than walking into the gallery = -BANG that's nice, I've got the cash, somewhere to put it = buy it.

a bit rambling I know but hey ho....

[CharlieSmith]

This is a very interesting idea. It does seem silly that you got pay like 8 quid for a standard CD where as for my Favorite CD I could and would play alot more. It weird because limited edition and vinyl's can be worth a lot but never for the artist. I tend to like selling my music via bandcamp because people can pay what they want music could be worth alot to some people and others not so much. But as an artist you need to support yourself.

I make all my CD's myself. Artwork and burn them. I take quite a lot of effort to be fair. I have two different version if you like. The hardcase version which I only do a limited number and they are all numbered. For example my lastest EP I have made 8 copyies. And the other version which is the same CD just put into a plastic folding case. I usually sell them alot cheaper and could even give them away because they take little effort or money.

My new stuff I really have to think about the physical CD more as I will be trying tell sell alot more via bandcamp etc. But yeah at the moment that is what it is.

[MichaelA]

Hi @MrBouzouki, nice to come across you here. That’s an interesting idea about going niche by following people’s interests. Someone could be the go-to songwriter for fishermen, for example. But I can’t see myself being that motivated to write so narrowly. But others might, for sure.

@Wicked Deeds, I like your idea of the certificate. Plus I think @pompeyjazz is right about limited edition vinyl. Then you would have something tangible to sell. But the limited edition element has to be the key, and a numbered certificate signed by the artist would help. Especially if the Press run was only 50 or 100.

@cowparsleyman I get your differentiation between paintings and music, but if you do like a music artist you have got to know well I think people would still pay out for something that is ‘limited’ in nature. Not that I think you wouldn’t agree with that. But yeah, paintings are more ‘instant’.

Hi @CharlieSmith, welcome to the forum. It sounds like you know quite a bit about this anyway with your own CDs. In this idea I’m thinking that maybe CDs don’t have the same ‘collector’ kudos as vinyl. Might be wrong, not sure. Thanks for joining in!

———————

So ....basically over the past couple of years I have plonked about 20 songs onto my Soundcloud account. They are all there and the whole account gets a few plays a day, but they aren’t going anywhere or doing anything. I’m not likely to earn anything from them, unless a miracle occurs! But @PaulAds  has dissed Jesus in this thread, so that ain’t gonna happen now! 😉

But I know there’s loads of people out there too who just do this for a hobby and as creative stimulation. Sometimes you hear about one or two on here who have made a CD album out of their stuff. I get that, it becomes a kind of keepsake and personal artefact to mark a period of creative achievement. I was thinking maybe I should do the same...

I think I am going to at least price up a limited run of a vinyl album. I am thinking of a real limited run of 50.

But thinking more broadly I am wondering if a website could be set up that would sell limited run, signed, numbered and certificated Vinyl albums by people like a lot of us? I’d rather 50 people have a rare collection of my songs than nobody. And if there was a destination marketplace/website for this kind of thing, then an audience/collector base might grow?

But the price ...what would people pay. £30...less, more... The ‘sell’ would have to be all about the limited and one-time nature of the product, something that is ‘collectible’.

Anyhow that’s where my mind is wandering for now. Thanks to all who have joined in. Keep it coming if you want, 😉

[cowparsleyman]

@MichaelA - Usually a 'Limited Run' is associated with an established brand, i.e. Gibson Customer Shop... It might come over a bit pretentious, for example...

Limited Edition of cowparsleyman at only £50 per CD including signed certificate...when I've not sold any at 99p, what's in it for the purchaser? Maybe use your 2nd String (but good inc a hooky single) songs on the limited edition and then, put your best stuff on the follow up album? save the pain of the 2nd album blues.

However I have noticed that some 'secondary' brand like Epiphone are hiking up their prices on Limited editions, Les Pauls for £600, The Texan acoustic for £2.5k

Maybe it's like a Lada limited edition...

Just Ideas Michael...I'll bbe very interested in it should you go ahead with the idea.

[pompeyjazz]

@MichaelA Songs for fishermen eh ? Now that's interesting. Of course like everything it's been done before. Who can forget the Beach Boys classic, "Cod only knows" And believe it or not...............

https://countryhookers.com/country-music-songs-about-fishing/#:~:text=%2022%20Country%20Music%20Songs%20About%20Fishing%20,5%20Fish%20%E2%80%93%20Craig%20Campbell.%20%20More%20

 

[MichaelA]

@cowparsleyman , thanks Rich for being so honestly sceptical of the idea. It’s no good if everyone agrees with it, then I try it and it fails miserably  But I wouldn’t buy an album for 99p either. Sounds like it is in the Clearance Bin.

So I have just been reading about some art galleries that like to have just 30 limited editions of a print, all signed and numbered. They often start out selling numbers 1 - 10 for the smallest price. As the edition starts to sell out, so the price goes up. The scarcity principle kicks in.  Bit like airline tickets. I quite like that as a transferable idea...

Yeah @pompeyjazz there was bound to be some fisherman songs. Cheers for bringing this thread down to a sea bass level. Now sling yer hook! 

[adamfarr]

Could the answer be to combine the two - make the sleeve real art, teaming up with an unknown artist? So the purchaser gets a thing of sonic and optic beauty...

By the way I couldn't for the life of me locate the article about the guy with the 150 album copies, sorry.

[pompeyjazz]

https://www.mobineko.com/short-run-vinyl/

[MichaelA]

Thanks Adam, well what I agree with there is the packaging needs to be extra beautiful, either in a tactile or visual way. All adds to the exclusivity feel of the item.

Thanks too John, I’ll forgive you the fisherman pun now  . I’m thinking a short run, either 50 or 100 needs to come in at under £10, including all the packaging. You’d at least have a chance of minimising your loss then if it totally bombs.

Has anyone on the forum actually commissioned short run vinyl in recent years? Any shared experiences would be great.

[hardtwistmusic]

An established songwriter explained the following to me in fairly graphic terms in 2009.  "It's gotten to where you can't," he said, "swing a dead cat without hitting a songwriter" in today's world. 

There are far more accomplished, but unappreciated songwriters in todays world than there were just a short few decades ago.  And the market has changed.  No one is out 'beating the bushes' for new songwriting talent.  Many people worry about having their songs 'stolen,' but the real challenge is getting them heard, not protecting them from being 'taken.' 

I suspect that painters are less likely to paint with the idea of becoming famous than songwriters are.  The mythical allure of 'sex, drugs, rock and roll and immense riches' draws many people to the music 'world.'  But 'sex, drugs, rock and roll are for only a very few.' 

For painters, there is little chance of having a showing and having young teenage groupies banging on your door after the showing to offer their bodies.  The 'worship factor' is known to be smaller in the 'painting world.' 

For songwriters, and musicians, the chance of that happening is probably equally small, but painters KNOW the chance is small, and not all songwriters do. 

I also think that painting might be more of a 'restful hobby' than songwriting, again because of the allure of the music mythology. 

Regarding the 'limited edition' concept.  The point of having a painting by Van Goh is that none of your friends will  have one, and they will be either impressed or jealous.  The point of having a recording by Van Halen is that your friends can admire you for sharing their tastes.  I can't imagine a world where people will be impressed and jealous because you have a song they've never heard, or even heard OF.  Based solely on my world experiences, that isn't likely to happen.  Your world may be far different from mine, and so I can't predict that this can't work somewhere, but it won't work among my circle of family, friends, and acquaintances.   

That's a longwinded way of saying, "No, I don't think the songwriting world can be correlated to the painting world in this way.

[5 guys named Lars]

Interesting thread @MichaelA. I think it can be rewarding having a physical piece if just for your own legacy. I think we all know you can't make money on SoundCloud but it can be used for marketing.. get a following and then delete songs making them only available via payment. There are a few writers on this forum I would gladly pay for a song or two I like but if it's on SoundCloud most people won't.
Sometimes when I've got one foot hanging precariously over the bread line I've thought about selling a song, reneging all credits/possible royalties for £30 (cash in hand! luvly jubbly! Everyones a winner!). There is apparently a market for this!? (though it could be a Danish thing? 😊As long as I know I'd written it I wouldn't care about credit or recognition.. Give me the money! (call me a cynical, money grabbing old trout if you like but I love it when you talk dirty). 😁

[cowparsleyman]

I love it that so many song writers can turn their ideas into reality.

I know a very talented vocalist and songwriter, i thinks shes mid twenties, just released her EP but she still reckons she might get a wheelbarrow full of wallop for her efforts. I hope she’s right.

Maybe it’s changed a bit but unless you looked right, a deal was hard to get, they wanted a face for the posters , its all about branding, the merch the interviews the cameos on children’s tv etc etc..

Do a bit of painting mostly oils...not living from the profits....

[Kafla]

Really interesting thread. I’m sceptical to be honest @MichaelA , sorry ! But I do like a challenge lol...so...

You bought that painting because at that moment in time you were swept away with the euphoria of being on holiday and wanted to bookmark that feeling for future reference.

How could you do that with your music ?

Finding the right distribution outlet would help ? Maybe the souvenir / ornament / trinket / tourist shop ? Give them 5/10 copies for free and let them keep a % of the sale price. Talk them through the sales pitch - local musician selling ltd edition vinyl. 

Engage a local artist to design the cover. Let’s face it most of the purchases are going to be made in the same fashion you bought your painting. I recently bought a painting of our favourite boozer in Glasgow - £45 commissioned directly from the artist. Consumers might purchase based on the cover alone and want to display it in the same fashion as a painting.

Try and book in a 30min presentation / Q&A at the shop - go up and sell your goods / promote yourself. Design an online sales pitch to promote your idea and share on social media.

I think ultimately we can sell anything if we put enough energy into it!

[MichaelA]

Thanks all...looks like there are more votes against than votes for.

It seems a lot of us seem world weary about the state of the music business and totally pessimistic about our own chances of success. It’s interesting too that most of us remain pretty enthusiastic about music making, despite all this. That’s pretty great actually, as it shows we are getting the buzz from something more than the hope of fame or wealth.

But @hardtwistmusic , you can’t swing dead cats anymore in 2020, as it isn’t politically correct. Just trying to be helpful...but thanks for your blunt honesty on the wider subject which wasn’t what I wanted to read, but was glad I did.

@5 guys named Lars , if you ever need £30 for a song don’t sell Holly!

@kafla, wasn’t your last song a bookmark for yourself of a time and place in your life? Maybe the thing about wanting something tangible to keep draws me to wanting more than an audio file. Your family video added value for sure. It would be good to keep that in some kind of time capsule certainly. If it were a painting it would be easier...

But all of which is leading me to conclude the idea of getting people to pay premium money for music is not really going to happen. Shame...I’ll keep dreaming.

But if anybody wants to passionately disagree, then let’s hear it.

[Kafla]

I tried to answer the question re music being sold like paintings.

I think if your talking about making money from your records then there are hundreds of actions we all could take. There are many labels that accept demos free , tonnes of radio stations and many letters we could write.

I just get a total buzz out of making music. Every time I write I song I can’t believe it - from 12 notes - unreal 😍

Don’t lose heart @MichaelA 👍 I see you have written and published a book - some achievement 😍