[MichaelA]

A few years ago I visited the beautiful region of the UK’s ‘Lake District’ on a snowy weekend in February. We did a boat trip on the lake we were staying near and later, in the shoreside town, I shelled out about a hundred quid on a limited edition print of the winter lake vista. The little art gallery shop seemed to be doing steady trade.

I was looking at the print today and wondering how is it that a few lesser known visual artists can make a living out their paintings, but it’s rare these days for lesser known songwriters to make any cash at all from their creations?

Just as I bought a limited edition print of a painting, I wondered if it would be possible to sell a limited edition of my songs. Or would people just not be interested.

Say any one of us had a place to sell say 50 limited edition digital copies of our songs, could a new kind of collectors market be established?

I’ve thought of a bit more detail to it, but for now wondered what others might think. Why can’t songs be sold as limited edition collector material rather than just broadcast for free?

I’d love to hear any thoughts.

[Wicked Deeds]

@MichaelA

My take on your question is that music has been almost completely devalued.  Too many people write (some poorly and others well). Too many people fall over themselves to give their work away freely.  Consequently, their work is devalued. I think if you are dedicated and hone your craft over many years, you are bound to write music of a high standard. I'd also add that writers work so much harder than previously.  Consider how the folk on the forum play almost every instrument and produce the songs that they present yet sadly, there is rarely any monetary reward.  Too often, it isn't worth a bean. When I was a boy, I loved to paint and draw. I'm sure, had I continued this art form, I would have sold a number of paintings. My skill as a writer is many times greater than my artistic painting skill yet I am convinced I will be lucky to sell 5 albums throughout my lifetime.  So far, I have sold 1 album only.  Sad beyond belief!

Paul

[adamfarr]

Answer is yes. This is now a thing. I can't remember the name of the guy (rapper? in NY I think) who makes 150 vinyls of each album only and sells them for $$$. Not a well known name but I believe they are good and collectably made. Possibly you have to do a lot of gigs and get a dedicated following first. I'll try and find who...


Of course, you could go full wu tang clan and make only one copy which no-one ever gets to hear and you then auction to your millionaire fans...

[Wicked Deeds]

I do find this to be a fascinating thread.  It's really tied up with your marketing skills and of course supply and demand.    I don't write to make money. I used to years ago but I gave up on that's idea so I accept the blame for having only sold one CD to date.  I believe it's more likely that an individual can make more money helping others to chase or realise their dreams of being a songwriter through their musical and production skills.  People will pay for a good quality musical production of their songs.  Songwriting has to be one area where you can develop your skills to a high standard yet still struggle to earn money from it.  If you practiced for example, your carpentry skills for 30 years, surely, you would be good enough to earn cash from your work.  A song is a different animal all together.  What does it take to get someone to buy a song?  When I think of my music buying history, I only buy music that's I love.  It has to be a statement of who I am.  This is a great thread.

[PaulAds]

Aye..

Jesus was most likely an excellent carpenter and look where it got him. And yet the clown who fitted my kitchen is always holidaying abroad when he's not swanning around in his fancy car or his expensive house...despite making a shit job of it.

Thread ruined. Sorry 😀

[MichaelA]

Thanks @Wicked Deeds and @adamfarr for coming into the thread.

I think Paul’s summary of how hard we can work to hone our songwriting skills, yet see less reward than if we practiced other crafts, is a good reflection of how I have been feeling - and how looking at that Lake District print made me feel. But trying to compete in the streaming market seems pretty pointless as a little guy. Well if you are hoping to earn a little something too.

So my thoughts have been straying to what Adam was saying- just selling your music to a limited number of people as collectors items. It’s kind of happened before in history. In the late 70s and early 80s a lot of punk and new wave bands put out their own vinyl, just a few hundred copies. There was a maybe nerdy or passionate group of what could be called collectors - many in the US - who took pride in collecting rare records from barely known bands. It was as if the more obscure the band was, then the more collectible their record.

I am wondering if a new ‘collectors market’ could be established where songwriters could sell say 100 only of a song to buyers who liked the idea of owning something of quality, but exclusive. The second motivation for the buyer would be kind of sponsoring an artist that they liked...

Anyway, that’s where my thoughts are going...and I’m going to think this out some more. The name of that rapper would be good Adam, if it comes to mind.

Thoughts from more of you would be welcome!

[Wicked Deeds]

@PaulAds,

Never mind your cowboy carpenter, get in your studio and record your vocal and guitar so I can help you realise your musical dreams 🎸🤣🎶

Paul

[MichaelA]

Thanks @PaulAds, well Jesus has sold several million copies worldwide of his book. So not really the lesser known type of practitioner I am talking about. 

[Wicked Deeds]

@MichaelA

Sorry if I have steered this into a slightly different territory.

I think paintings  are a tangible artistic item. We can see that we have something for our hard earned cash when we buy a painting.

I do think someone would buy a limited edition of a song but also believe your marketing strategy would have to be really good to find that niche buyer, including an attractive presentation package, i.e something tangible to accompany the sale like a certificate as an example.  I think it's a niche market e.g a celebration of an occasion like a wedding anniversary. 

Paul

[Wicked Deeds]

@MichaelA,

As long as people are willing to give their music away for free, they reduce the value of their product.  Items that are scarce have a monetary value.  The more I think about your idea/suggestion, I begin to see that it has mileage.  I'd say that it is time that writers made a stand and stopped the practice of devaluing their art by giving it away for free!

Paul

[PaulAds]

Thanks @PaulAds, well Jesus has sold several million copies worldwide of his book. So not really the lesser known type of practitioner I am talking about. 

And never made him a ha'penny 😀

I think the first accounts of his story didn't appear until about 50 years after his death. They were (holy) ghost written, I suppose. It perhaps highlights the need to get your product out there and copyrighted in order to avoid being ripped-off.

His book sales over the years have seemed pretty poor in his own locality. They do say "You're never a prophet in your own land"

[PaulAds]

@PaulAds,

Never mind your cowboy carpenter, get in your studio and record your vocal and guitar so I can help you realise your musical dreams 🎸🤣🎶

Paul

Cheers, Paul @Wicked Deeds hoping to get something done tonight.

I recorded six full vocal tracks on Sunday and they were all awful...i would have been embarrassed to send them over to you, so I deleted them and will try again.

[pompeyjazz]

I think the limited edition vinyl route is worth investigating.  Our local record shop Pie & Vinyl which sells pies and vinyl promotes vinyl limited edition releases each year on record store day. Anybody know how much it would cost to press 100 vinyl singles ?

https://www.pandvrecords.co.uk/

[MrBouzouki]

Hi @MichaelA , yes I think you could try. Obviously you need physical media but perhaps more importantly you need a niche audience I think.

Identify the target audience, write material they would like and then target forums, newsletters (do people still do these ? ), blog posts, social media people who are in that niche. A crazy example, you write a load of songs about say biking, the culture, the thrills, the camaraderie etc. then target social media sites, magazines, bike clubs etc.

Yes you reduce your audience pool but you instead make something special in a restricted group. you aren't limiting your numbers but you are responding to a group of people who might be crying out for say the next "Bat Out of Hell". LOL

A few likes later, it maybe become a thing to be sold at biking events and rallies and you have an audience who respond to the fact that you wrote something especially for them.

 



 

[MrBouzouki]

@MichaelA ...expanding on this idea of niche a bit, certain artists in the instrumental music fields have done very well out out identifying an audience and writing music for that audience.

A good example is David and his wife Diane Arkenstone who jumped on the "New Age" band-wagon and has made a career out of it.

David Arkenstone (born July 1, 1952) is an American composer and performer. His music is primarily instrumental, with occasional vocalizations. Most of Arkenstone's music falls into new age category; however, he also worked in other genres, including even a heavy metal soundtrack for Emperor: Battle for Dune video game. His music has been described as 'soundtracks for the imagination'. Throughout his career, Arkenstone released over 50 albums and composed music for video games, including World of Warcraft, and for television, including NBC's Kentucky Derby. David has been nominated for Grammy Awards four times.

Granted, instrumental music is different in some ways but the point is not the rarity but the specialisation of the music he makes.

Add lyrics into the equation and you can reflect on the hopes and dreams of a smaller target audience in place of trying to target everybody .