Changing chords in loops

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Sing4me88

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« on: August 21, 2020, 09:00:32 PM »
Hi all,
            this might be a pretty basic question or, alternatively, it might not even be possible but I was wondering if you can change the chords in a loop? So I know that you can transpose loops to a different key and can pitch chopped bits of a loop up/down a designated number of semi-tones in most DAW but can you change chord progressions. So, for example, if I hear a loop on Loopcloud or Splice or wherever that I like and it's in the key of C and my song is in the key of Em I can obviously transpose - that part is simple enough. But say, for talk's sake, the chord progression in the loop went Am-C-F-G is it possible for me to change the chord progression to say C-Am-G? Would isolating the chords, cutting them from the loop and then transposing them to C, then the next to Am and then the next to G work? This seems like a convoluted process so I'm wondering if anyone knows of an easier way. I'm using Audacity Mixcraft by the way, in case it can be done in other set ups like Ableton but not more basic ones like Mixcraft.

Apologies for my complete ignorance of the know-how of DAWs etc but I'm still very slowly cutting my teeth....  ;D

Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2020, 10:50:33 AM »
@Sing4me88

I think you will find that this is currently a feature found in some of the more “advanced” DAWs

To help with your searching you are looking for “chord track” or “audio loops follow chord changes”

Studio One Pro has this feature and it really is like “black magic” sometimes

Here is a guide that someone put together that will show you what is possible in StudioOne:
https://forums.presonus.com/download/file.php?id=9134&sid=f00d04ae07f78e28f04b048aa8b06567

I believe Cubase has had this feature for longer so it may be even more refined - I know a few folks around here use Cubase so hopefully they will chip in soon

If you are moving in the direction of audio loops you might want to see if some of the more advanced loop based DAWs have this feature




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shadowfax

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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2020, 01:33:32 PM »
Yeah cubase would deal with this easily..cutting it up and changing them individually doesn't sound like too much trouble..
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 01:35:24 PM by shadowfax »
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Sing4me88

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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2020, 08:51:49 AM »
Just to briefly resurrect this discussion...

So I'm currently working on trying to capture a moody dark pop idea that I have; think Billie Eilish meets Taylor Swift meets Post Malone (well, some trap hats at least!). I've hit on a great guitar loop in Loopcloud that fits the bill of what I'm after; everything about the sample just fits in with the foley and industrial sounds that I've thrown together and it fits the overall vibe I'm going for so neatly that it isn't even funny.

Only problem is mapping the loop onto chords. The song is in C major scale using a fairly basic 4 bar progression of C-G-Am for that familiar dark pop feel. The loop is originally in C major so I guess my options are a) keep the loop as it is in the key of C and let it play across the 4 bar progression (this might actually work come to think of it) or b) chop and pitch/transpose as necessary to map it onto chord changes.

I've tried b) and have to say it's not exactly sounding great. I guess I'm wondering if I f%$ked up the process somewhere along the line? I basically chopped up the 4 bar loop into 1 bar loops; kept the first as is, then set the key of the second to G and then set the key of the 3 and 4 to A. The first 2 loops sound fine but the last two sound a bit off? Would it make any difference if I simply copied the first loop and pitched it down however many semitones to G and then did the same for the last two bars and pitched it down however many semi tones to Aminor/A? It might even help to do this in Loopcloud itself rather than DAW.... Is this how to get the loop playing a C-G-Am progression rather than simply playing in key of C.

Once again apologies for my complete ignorance and thanks for any help!

Boydie

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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2020, 07:43:23 AM »
@Sing4me88

The problem with trying to “pitch shift” chords is that you will get in to a mess

It sounds like you have simply changed the key of the loop - so if the loop it just stays on 1 chord for the 4 bars it will be C Major

If you transpose the loop’s key to G then the chords will be G Major - which is why the first 2 chords are working for you

However, when you try to change it to the key of A, the chord will be A Major - rather than A Minor you need to fit the chord (so one of the notes will clash with the chord as the Major 3rd in the A Major chord of the loop needs to be dropped down a semi-tone to fit with the Am chord you want)

I really think you have outgrown Audacity and need to consider a more fully fledged DAW with these features

If you are mainly working with loops there are many options out there so I would suggest reading some reviews and doing some free trials of any that catch your eye
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Sing4me88

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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2020, 09:29:21 AM »
Thanks for this Boydie. I strongly suspect you're right about the solution being to take the plunge with a more 'grown up' DAW that has better features more in line with what I want to do.

Audacity was great as a learning tool and really helped me develop - especially during lockdown when there's little else to do! It' probably reached the limits of it's usefulness now (one thing I do like about it is the range of FX that comes with Mixcraft 8 though).

In terms of other DAWs I've been thinking about either Ableton or Studio One. Most of the video break downs/ how to produce X,Y or Z type song all seem to use either one of these. They also have a nice functionality and some pretty neat features too. From what I remember Ableton has a pretty neat guitar strumming feature (though I use Strum Session and Ample Guitar already, but the Ableton feature is pretty cool all the same). I guess I'll be looking for one with some sort of idiot proof 'chord finder/changer' function where ideally I'd just drop in a 4 bar loop and then tell the DAW to transpose it onto a particular chord sequence - if this can in fact be done in any DAW!

Happy to hear if there are better alternatives out there but at the moment I'm minded to go for either Studio One or Ableton, with a slightly stronger preference for the latter but by no means am I settled on that decision!

PaulAds

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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2020, 09:47:12 AM »
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Sing4me88

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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2020, 01:02:02 PM »
Thanks for flagging the free Lite version of Ableton up Paul Ads. I'll be sure to check it out. A free demo/trial would allow me to get a feel for it to see if it's 'for' me and to see whether I can work within the limitations of that version rather than having to splash out on the more expensive fuller version

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2020, 01:13:26 PM »
@Sing4me88 - I agree you might benefit form a more feature rich DAW, most have a palatable upgrade path. It's a challenge to know what to get, personally I'd focus on DAW functionality rather than VSTi's or included plugin effects, concentrate on how many tracks you need, what MIDI features, routing, can it handle busses? How is the manipulation of objects per track?

Maybe see if the entry level DAW uses the same audio Engine from it's most expensive product range...my DAW Magix Samplitude pro X4 suite uses the Audio Engine form Sequoia which is a broadcast level piece of software, and to my ears it's sound really clear.

Hope this helps


Boydie

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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 07:28:26 AM »
@Sing4me88

I think trying the lite version Ableton is the right first step

At the risk of making your decision harder - I have switched to Studio One and it is AWESOME

If you want to send me the files from your projects I can see how easy it is for that particular loop to follow the chord track feature in Studio One
To check out my music please visit:

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Sing4me88

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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 01:02:16 PM »
Cool. Thanks for the kind offer Boydie. I'll hunt out the offending loop and send it to your PM on here.

Sing4me88

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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2020, 11:50:22 AM »
Hey Boydie. I've hunted out the said offending loop. Is there a way to attach it as a file to a PM on here?


Boydie

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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2020, 02:29:13 PM »
@Sing4me88

I don’t think so - I will pm you my email address
To check out my music please visit:

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