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Updating my home studio - your experience needed!

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PeteS

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« on: April 23, 2020, 10:34:49 AM »
Long post but please help! :)

I'm updating my home studio.  Until now, I haven't recorded much so any old kit would do, but now I'm doing a lot more I want to update things.

I should probably start by saying that the heart of the studio will be my 2018 MacBook pro.

Audio interface - I currently have a Line 6 UX1.  It's been ok but is old technology these days, only allows one input at a time, no phantom power and I need to run Pod Farm 2.  Plus, that is a 32bit app so if I upgrade to Catalina it won't work.
So I am looking at either the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 or 4i4 or the Presonus Studio 24c or Audiobox 96.  The Scarletts have a great reputation but Presonus is not far behind.  I'm currently favouring the Studio24c as it has high quality pre amps 2 in and out plus midi in that the Scarlett doesn't have until I get to the 4i4 which is more expensive and whilst 4 inputs may be useful at some point, I can't really see that currently so I'd prefer to save the difference.  And looking at price, the Audiobox 96 is the cheapest but is a slightly lower quality than the studio. 

Mic - I am using a Sennheiser e815s dynamic mic.  Clearly I need to get a condenser mic for vocals and acoustic instruments.  My current favourite is the Audio Technica AT2020.  Good reviews and under £100.

Headphones - This is probably where my mixing suffers most.  I am using a cheap(ish) pair of audio headphones.  They are ok for normal use but no use for mixing.  I haven't seen anything that jumps out here so your recommendations appreciated.

Monitors - I've already discussed those on her and I'm going for the PreSonus Eris E4.5s.  But I'm going to delay those and use that money for some of the other stuff as I can't use the monitors at any volume with all the family around during lockdown!

So that's it, all help appreciated and if I've missed any items you think I should have, please say!

Cheers

Pete

New album out now - Wrong Time, Wrong Place : https://open.spotify.com/album/7AKxi8xiendb9dY22v4QnP?si=AR0VZ1pjSDOwVosifVd_sA
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Boydie

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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2020, 02:21:37 PM »
@PeteS

All good choices so far

For headphones I would recommend the KRK KNS 8400

These are really (really really really) comfortable, which is especially if you are using them for an extended period of time:
https://www.andertons.co.uk/recording/headphones/closed-back/krk-kns-8400-professional-headphones

When I need to mix on headphones I use a Focusrite VRM box, which emulates different listening environments and speaker setups - which is great for referencing mixes

Unfortunately this has now been discontinued but WAVES have their NX software, which may be worth giving a go to get the "listening to monitors in a room" experience with headphones
To check out my music please visit:

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PeteS

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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2020, 03:44:41 PM »
Thanks @Boydie those headphones sound great and just about in the right price bracket!

Good shout on Waves NX, I'd seen it mentioned but didn't know what it was. 

Cheers!
New album out now - Wrong Time, Wrong Place : https://open.spotify.com/album/7AKxi8xiendb9dY22v4QnP?si=AR0VZ1pjSDOwVosifVd_sA
Instagram @echodogsofficial

Jambrains

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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2020, 04:00:31 PM »
I have been using a pair of AKD 712 for some years now and like them a lot but I would never again mix without the Sonarworks (sonarworks.com) software for a flat response no matter what cans I'm using. Worth every penny imo. I use it with my monitors as well (Eris E5) but I mixed exclusively on cans for many years and still do more or less, monitors are more for getting a "second opinion".
I also have the VRM box that @Boydie mentioned but for some reason I never liked it.

Andyb

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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2020, 04:41:17 PM »
I'm using the Scarlett 2i2 and have no complaints also I'd put a shout in for the Beringer B2 pro mic that's what I'm using and I've found it to be very good whilst acknowledging I don't have much experience with other mics for comparison


Boydie

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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2020, 05:14:00 PM »
@Jambrains
That is interesting, I didn’t rate the Sonarworks - and it even had a profile for the KRKs

There was not much difference at all so I guess the KRKs were pretty flat anyway
To check out my music please visit:

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adamfarr

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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2020, 06:17:08 PM »
I have AKG K240s (probably a bit lower price range than Jambrains') which I like for mixing. Just to note that the KRKs are closed back and both the AKGs are semi-open back - I usually use closed back for recording (better isolation) and open back for mixing (supposed to be easier on the ears for longer periods but that may be an old wives' tale).

Jambrains

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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2020, 06:59:24 PM »
@Jambrains
That is interesting, I didn’t rate the Sonarworks - and it even had a profile for the KRKs

There was not much difference at all so I guess the KRKs were pretty flat anyway

That's odd... the average curve for the KRKs has a +6 db peak around 150 Hz, a -6 db dip at 400 Hz and -3db from 600 hz up to 3k Hz. The compensation for that should be noticeable. The K712 are a bit flatter in the lower regions but has a -6b dip at 3k and a +3db peak at 6k and there is big different between having the compensation on or off for me.

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2020, 08:56:54 PM »
@PeteS - hope we can help you...like @Jambrains I also do the majority of my mixing under cans, i can really recommend the AKG Q701 (open back)  they are as flat as a pancake, they do not give you any misleading frequencies, many say that they are rather bass light but they aren’t it’s just that so many others ( including my audio technica atx50 tracking cans) are bass heavy.

I hardly use my mid field monitors- JBL L46 which are again flat as a pancake, but as you already know a room needs to be ‘tuned’ if you want to rely on those for your primary monitoring. I can’t recommend anything else as I just love my JBLs.

I have been in all sorts of studios and the best i heard were tannoy reds and golds but they are rather pricey.

I did a sound test at Thomann in treppendorf, Germany some years ago, they have a listening room where you can compare about 30 different pairs of monitors from cheapish to very very expensive, i spent an hour in there and only 1 pair did it for me Under £500, cant even remember what they were called but to my ears they weren’t as  balanced at lo and high SPLs  as my JBLs.

As for audio interfaces Ive used only focusrite and behringer and my preference is behringer (UMC1820) extremely good value for money and has many features over the focusrite.

Mic , well horses for courses, i use a beyer dymanic for cab mic , and rode NT2a for vox, NT3 for acoustic guitar and a AKG c1000s for also amp mic’ing. All good at what they do, although i would not fo for the latter again...its a bit noisey and a an odd response curve.

I also use a presonus valve mic preamp, again worth every penny, made a HUGE difference to my LVox recording, got mine 2nd hand off the Bay.

I’ve no experience of ribbon mics.

Maybe invest in a small vocal enclosure this will make your vocals much less bedroomy.

Good quality cables are also a wise investment, i can recommend van damme or sommer with Neutrik connectors,

I think in a previous post we discussed other things that also, here’s a few from experience....

A couple of good music stands, pegs for holding lyrics in place,
A good seat that’s quiet and comfy, i use a drum stool, as i can play guitars and swivel about freely, but it is a Bit squeaky nowadays.

A good quality pop filter.

Best of luck Peter, it can be an expensive hobby but get the best quality input devices, eg mic and pre amps and it’ll make the rest much easier, and as long as you can hear pretty much the same as you recorded it that’s a great start, if it sounds different then you’re already on shaky ground.

Hope this helps





« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 09:02:32 PM by cowparsleyman »

PeteS

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« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2020, 10:43:46 AM »
Wow! A lot to learn so thanks guys for all the input!  Looking through the points:

Audio Interface - I hadn't considered the Behringer range, don't know why as we use a behringer mixer! @cowparsleyman the UMC1820 is a rack mount and too much for me but the smaller units in the UMC range look excellent value.  The UMC 404HD gives me the safety blanket of 4 inputs so I'm taking a good look at that one.

Mic - It seems there are a lot of options and you all get decent results.  I want to keep under £100 for a Condenser mic that will do vocals and guitar so that rules out Rode.  So I would stick with the AT2020 but that's not available anywhere at the moment.  The AKG P120 or the SE X1A both look good alternatives so I think that's where I'll head. 

Headphones - Well this generated more debate and I even understood some of it  :).   Given I only want 1 pair of headphones at the moment, I think I'll go for closed back so I can record vocals with decent isolation, so probably the KRKs.  Anyone try the slightly cheaper 6400s?

Hadn't thought of a vocal enclosure.  I'll have a good look but having a quick google, they vary massively in price and size, anything specific I should be looking for?

Thanks again for all the help guys!

New album out now - Wrong Time, Wrong Place : https://open.spotify.com/album/7AKxi8xiendb9dY22v4QnP?si=AR0VZ1pjSDOwVosifVd_sA
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cowparsleyman

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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2020, 11:33:19 AM »
@PeteS - personally id go for the open backs and somehow cover the leakage from the open backs as you’ll spend more time mixing than recording ...maybe...

I only needed the umc1820 as i have a drum kit plus a few other bits of kit and mics...



Best of luck with it...

Boydie

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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2020, 11:29:45 AM »
Quote
That's odd... the average curve for the KRKs has a +6 db peak around 150 Hz, a -6 db dip at 400 Hz and -3db from 600 hz up to 3k Hz. The compensation for that should be noticeable. The K712 are a bit flatter in the lower regions but has a -6b dip at 3k and a +3db peak at 6k and there is big different between having the compensation on or off for me.

@Jambrains - yes, I did find it odd

I am not disputing the figures but I genuinely couldn’t hear enough of a difference to justify introducing it in to my workflow

I did try it as soon as it was released so perhaps I had unrealistically high expectations - I regularly get offers sent through so perhaps I will give it another go based on your recommendation
To check out my music please visit:

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PaulyX

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« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2020, 05:57:07 PM »
Hi, finding this thread really useful too since I also need a new Audio Interface (my old one is about 14 years old and seems to crackle like a log fire now).  Thanks for the lead on Focusrite @PeteS , I think I'm going to go for the 4i4 unless anyone screams "Stop!" at me... the price difference to the 2i2 is only 30 quid it seems and that looked worth it to me for the extra inputs & MIDI etc.  I did look at the Behringer UMC1820 too @cowparsleyman but noticed it doesn't have USB Bus power and sometimes I want to record in my car (!) using it as a vocal booth.  I probably want something fairly robust and portable I can carry around in a backpack.  I'll be using it with a MacBook and Logic.  Reckon I'm safe to push "Buy now"?
It's all too beautiful.

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2020, 06:03:28 PM »
Hi @PaulyX - does the 4i4 have usb power? I had a 6i6 but found the routing sw really confusing...but it did sound pretty clean.

Best of luck with it