[PaulAds]

Did you use any tuning on the vocal you sent me for "animals" @adamfarr?

[cowparsleyman]

@adamfarr - "Tuning seems to get an especially bad rap - why should it be regarded any differently to EQ, compression, reverb..." maybe they are subtley different...EQ and compression changes the sound of the clothing of the note, not the note itself.

Put it this way, would you keep a bum note on a guitar solo? or a drum beat out of time?

For those that have played live...Did you ever feel that burning embarrassment of that hugely wrong note in your Guitar Solo? that you'd swear you'd never do again.

Then why would you allow a wrong note to be kept forever on your song? yes this is not a pro forum, but over the years, there have been some here that would like to take things further, and justifiably so, there have been many songs here that really deserve much wider exposure.

Great thread

[PaulAds]

Reminds me of an interview with Scotty Moore who was asked how he came up with such interesting and groundbreaking stuff...and on at least one solo...he admitted he’d just played the odd wrong note...and everyone thought it was an off-the-wall stroke of genius.

I guess that’s why they’re called “accidentals”

I’ll be playing at Peterlee Central Club tonight and imagine I’ll drop a few clangers, as usual...more often than not, it’s really funny and odd few who spot it don’t seem to care. It’s not something that bothers me unduly. Then again to be fair, I hope to be mostly on the money 99% of the time.

I had the misfortune of catching some of “whiskey in the jar” on the wireless yesterday...and one of the guitar solos has an iffy note in it to my ears...and there usually seems to be no bass guitar on there at all...which was maybe a conscious or perhaps semi-conscious decision. I always thought there was a bum note in “bat out of hell” on the accented “like a sinner before the gates of heaven” bit. I think the bass plays a wrong note on the rundown at the fade out of “daydream believer” too...but maybe not...

[Cawproductions]

Hi guys,

I am with @cowparsleyman here, Tuning is not a crime, Its just whats expected from a produced record these days.

I was listening to the intro to sinner man, Nina simone the other day, The piano is out of time but its on the final cut, fast forward to today, every listener would suggest that is sloppy playing..I have also heard of the scotty moore thing, Back then OK, as it was the only way, today, its not a thing and "Your" audience wont like it.

Seems to be a bone of contention judging by the amount of replies to this thread...Can/worms firmly set free.......and causing carnage..

I would wager that we could count on one hand the amount of singers, in here and in the pro world that do not need ANY tuning of some slight description. I have watched loads of production videos of top engineers fixing pro vocals..Ok, not fixing, enhancing to a level that the record company will accept. Just the way it is. so dont get upset if your vocals get a bit of treatment.
I run every vocal I take and every vocal of anyone I work with through melodyne, Not had one person say, "have you tuned my vocals" but instead, they say "sounds great".

The plot thickens

[Jamie]

A very interesting thread, I suspected this could be a polarising discussion, and it seems to be. For me it’s a bit like discussing religion,politics, Brexit etc. You can only usually get away with saying what you think, but can’t persuade people with different beliefs that you’re right. It usually ends badly. Picking up on points raised before, for me it is all about the song,but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t present the best possible rendition of it. People always find ways of making things better that suits their needs,and this is no different imho. An example I would give is that I have a drum kit in my studio, and I can play the basics, but why would I when I can access top quality drum loops and bend them to my will, and create a truly excellent drum track?
Don’t misunderstand me I’m not arguing the rights and wrongs of it I’m only saying what I think, other opinions are just as valid!

Yours in a non judgy way😎
Cheers Jamie

[Cawproductions]

True dat Jamie,

I hear ya, we all use the tools available, for me, Superior drummer, yeh I can play the drums, but like the guys that played the grooves on Superior drummer?, No way I can. They sound great tho.

Its always gunna split the camp but if you love music then you go with what makes you and your listeners feel good.

I dont think for one minute anyone will fall out on here, just good old fashioned discussion.

Probably a good place to end before the gloves come off.

Thanks everyone for their input, Until my next thought provoking post...Over and out.

Now to collect all those worms and get them back in the can for next time.,

No, Now really over and out.

[adamfarr]

@PaulAds - 'fraid so, was supposed to be a quick take without much messing about but I still corrected a few things (but then if you couldn't really tell then probably job's a good 'un...)

[PaulAds]

There was a time, I believe...when I was a lad...where bands would lose money on live tours but they helped promote record sales...which was where the money was back then. These days, I've heard that it's the live shows that makes most of the big money... which if anything suggests that the ability to perform live on demand is as important as ever. Things like the "live lounge" and live/unplugged sessions seem really popular too.

I don't think there has been anything here that would come anywhere close to anyone falling out. A great interesting chat. I don't give a flyer what anyone uses. There are plenty of legitimate methods and also more dubious forms of skulduggery in the world that concern me greatly...but how people try to get their vocals sounding better isn't on my radar.

[PaulAds]

@adamfarr well...you did a great job. I never gave it a thought.

Goes to show that if you can use something that helps you out and makes you happier about what you do... without any negative impact at all...and the result is excellent...then why not use it.

Guess I'm just a bit of a luddite 😃

[pompeyjazz]

Brilliant thread. Have really enjoyed all the angles

[Paulski]

I hate to do it on my tracks. I also hate to admit I have done it and probably will do it again. Once you head down that slippery slope... I find it really interesting how far some of my vocal notes are out (according to waves tune)
It would be tempting to fix everything if I had the time - but I don't - so sometimes I just look to see how bad it is.. and be humbled once more..

[cowparsleyman]

I have an example of a before and after. It's not Tuned Vocals, but how Melodyne can make a difference.

I won't post it to SC for obvious reasons, but I'm more than willing to email them to anyone that wants to hear the comparison. It's "Distance" by SebAndMe, but with me singing (how to ruin a great song!).

Feel free to PM me if you're interested.

Regards

Rich

[jacksimmons]

Until recently I had never done it, not through any great aversion but because I didn’t know how. I have recently discovered the ability to pitch shift in my DAW and have used it sparingly on a few tracks.

I don’t see anything wrong with it. At the end of the day a I am trying to create and arrange something that is fun, exciting and hopefully beautiful to listen to. Tweaking an arrangement of a song - MIDI keys, reverb, volume etc. - to me is no different; it is all a means to creating a polished piece of music.

I don’t like the autotuned vocal sound when it is over used, but I have found it useful to tweak vocals where re-recording isn’t an option (for instance, if replicating the recording environment/sound is no longer possible because  significant time has passed since the initial recording).

Of course it is always preferable to re-record a botched take, but why not tweak it if you need to, and can? Just as long as you are not coming to rely on it entirely. I don’t get to hung up on it.