konalavadome

Gloves off?

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shadowfax

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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2019, 08:15:03 AM »
It's not about wether one likes a song or not, that's irrelevant..you can still listen and give some sensible but honest feedback,
there are plenty of formulayic and lyrically tiresome songs in the charts, in fact we are all knackered because intro..verse..bridge..chorus..etc..is formulayic :)
I tend to mention a (what I consider to be ) production problem, but if someone cannot actually sing I steer away from that area..however, it would be a valid criticism..would it not?
I have in the past mentioned mistakes in acoustic guitar playing only for some..(purist) to say it was an honest performance,
which is a bit silly...your not helping anyone by encouraging their mistakes..
I reckon tis best to leave things as is guys.. :) :)

I reckon if you wanted special critique you could PM the person you would like it from...maybe :)
in fact ..thinking about that, it seems like a good solution.. 8) :)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 08:24:25 AM by shadowfax »

Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra

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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2019, 02:52:45 PM »
I agree Paul (as you probably remember).

No-one wants to offend of course and a lot of reviews are just people racking up points because they want to post so I suppose we should just be grateful that they are reciprocating (not like some) even if a lot of the reviews are brief, uncontroversial and weak.

If you think a song is great, maybe a bit more in the way of qualifying just what it is that moved you to say it was great would make things a bit more interesting.

But we are not professional critics so not everybody is good at reviewing or making a thorough examination of their feelings about something...just like it and can't really explain why.

It also takes more time and commitment to give a thorough appraisal.
Take it easy.

You can check my stuff out here. Mini-album getting bigger slowly. Free download if you're poorer than me.

Easy Life - Viscount Cramer

shadowfax

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« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2019, 04:49:37 PM »
Am I missing something? how do people rack up points by posting, have Tesco got involved? :)

and..how dare you criticize peeps for their reviews! if someone acknowledges a writers song, no matter how brief..uncontroversial or weak then that's good enough, at least they took the time to listen and comment...
you really are a bit high and mighty sometimes.. :o
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 05:06:31 PM by shadowfax »

tone

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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 06:39:46 PM »
Am I missing something? how do people rack up points by posting, have Tesco got involved? :)

and..how dare you criticize peeps for their reviews! if someone acknowledges a writers song, no matter how brief..uncontroversial or weak then that's good enough, at least they took the time to listen and comment...
you really are a bit high and mighty sometimes.. :o

This is a bit strong mate... How Dare people? Step back and give it some thought and you'll realise he's alluding to the possibility that some people might be posting simply to make up their 3 reviews per song submission.

Disagree with each other by all means, but seeing this kind of tone of voice upsets me because it's unnecessary and lowers the tone of the forum.

The forum doesn't belong to you any more than it does me or viscount. It's a really cool place, and I think we should all work to protect that.

Bill & Ted said it best: be excellent to each other. :D

Back on topic, it's a really interesting one, and I'm going to offer a perspective that hasn't been aired yet. Giving brutal feedback takes guts! And confidence. Two things not everyone has. But Boydie said it in his post: if you're looking for brutal, no-holds-barred honesty, ask for it. I've done it. And if you can take criticism it's a great thing to receive.

New EP: Straitjacket - Listen here

1st track from my upcoming album -- Click to listen -- Thanks!

Please read the rules before posting in the feedback forums http://bit.l

Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra

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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2019, 06:41:50 PM »
Er...yes sorry about that Kevin. I kept drafting replies to this thread and not posting and got myself a bit on to the wrong track when I finally did...got myself a bit mixed up with the spirit of a thread I started myself a year or so ago....a bit on the same subject but with a different emphasis.

Sorry about that.

Your reviews are ace by the way.
Take it easy.

You can check my stuff out here. Mini-album getting bigger slowly. Free download if you're poorer than me.

Easy Life - Viscount Cramer

Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra

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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2019, 06:45:32 PM »
Hey Tone it's cool. Kevin is right.
Take it easy.

You can check my stuff out here. Mini-album getting bigger slowly. Free download if you're poorer than me.

Easy Life - Viscount Cramer

PaulAds

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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2019, 07:19:48 PM »


Joking aside...I'm a little sorry I mentioned it now.

Just ignore me  :(

Skub

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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2019, 09:11:51 PM »
 ;D ;D @PaulAds  :D :D

Thanks for the laugh Paul!

I'm firmly in the camp of accepting whatever critique comes my way. I hope no one feels like they have to tiptoe around me,or be afraid of causing offence,because there is certainly no need. I don't just post songs to be admired,though you can do that too,if you like.  ;D

When I post a song in 'Finished Songs',it's usually...er.. finished  :D However if someone offers advice on any part outside of a rewrite,I will consider and possibly take it onboard,then alter the track accordingly.I did this in the current song.

 You all know how it is,we are immersed totally in a new track and it's very easy to lose objectivity,effectively we stop hearing properly. This is why fresh,honest ears are a real boon and this place has always been good at doing this...as Paul says,politely!  ;D

I understand it's difficult for some to be constructive on tracks they don't dig,it's easy to say,'It's not my thing,but it's well produced' and although that's a bit of a backhanded compliment,it's not going to cause any wars! If I really can't hear any value in a track,nor any way to help,I won't say anything at all.

If a song can be reviewed constructively and supportively,it's a great thing. I love the way this forum has brought out the best in songwriters though encouragement and technical help,I for one feel I've grown more content in my own skin in my time here.

So...after all that horseballs above,yeah,if someone has something to point out in any of my tracks,I'm more than happy to receive that knowledge before going down the path of the abusive PMs.  ;D

As you were.  8)

Davy.

shadowfax

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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2019, 08:16:09 AM »
I hear what Tone says but sometimes things just have to be said, Viscount has accepted what I said with a degree of humility that gains him a heckofalotof respect from me for sure... :)
this was a brutally honest critique of his post, if we cannot do that then how on Earth do we give brutally honest critiques of music?

I still think if a poster wants honest critique then PM the person they want it from, lets keep the forum polite, because it will soon degenerate into...right, he/she gave me a brutally honest crit so I'm gonna do the same back..saw it happen on the Steinberg site,

best to all and respect to Viscount.. :) :)

PaulAds

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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2019, 11:57:21 AM »
Got to be honest, I'm a bit taken aback there, Kev.

Anyway... The general consensus seems to be that brutally honest feedback in certain situations and only when invited is not a road we want to go down. Cool. It was just a thought.

If whatever those steinberg folks were doing suggested that unless we all tell each other our songs are really good...we'll descend into telling each other our songs are really a bit shit is...well...a bit shit.

In the grand scheme of things, lots of my songs are effectively shit. I've had songs I was foolish/arrogant enough to think were in with a real chance of winning song of the month that weren't even shortlisted. I've submitted  many songs to BBC introducing but all bar one novelty song were rejected. When I listened to the songs that made the play list of the shows, I thought most of that stuff was shit. I'm quite likely simply wrong. I gave a cd of some of my songs to our drummer and he isn't interested in them at all.. I don't stop writing and recording because of it. I just want to make sure I'm being realistic and not living in some bullshit fantasy world. I've written lots of songs but never posted them here because I know they're shit. I was writing songs for about 25 years before I knew a songwriters forum existed. Most of those were more shit than the stuff I write now.

I don't mind. It's my hobby. I like it.

There are some kind people here who give me more credit than I think I'm due...and there are people here who don't rate me much at all. Thank you and ho hum respectively.

I'm deluded enough to think that the most important things about writing songs are the things I'm quite good at....but I know I'm deluding myself. It just helps me keep going.


CaliaMoko

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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2019, 01:38:10 PM »
Well, I, for one, am glad you mentioned it @PaulAds and I'm still in favor of brutally honest feedback. At least when I am on the receiving end. And by "brutally honest", I don't actually mean "brutal", as in rude and hurtful. Plain and honest. But then, I do have pretty thick skin. Most of the time.

adamfarr

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« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2019, 02:35:58 PM »
@Paulads I think the feedback here is actually reliable - it's just different to what you get in the real world:

- we are probably a bit primed and looking forward to each others' songs because we may have heard others before or the poster has earned some listens by being constructive around the forum or giving our own a listen

- as creators and reviewers we here are attentive listeners - I'm often shocked when I play something for someone in real life that by about the 10 second mark they are already talking over it

- speaking for myself at least, I am a non-expert musician, singer, and producer and so am likely to give due credit to those who seem to be ahead of me in those games

- we are fellow sufferers...

These things may make us a bit more positive than those that hear the songs for the first time in the real world. But it just means we've listened better, and maybe appreciate things that others don't listen for. It doesn't at all mean the songs are really more shit than we say (on the contrary) - it just means that others don't really listen to them. This may be due to their expectations of what singing voices should be, or comparing them to the instancy of chart music, or whatever (and we can choose to try going down those paths or not, depending on what our intentions are).

As Roseanne Cash said (actually she nicked it from someone): play to the 6% of the audience who are poets. (Every now and then you find an appreciative listener, even in the outside world).

Anyway, I was humming "Under the Knife" while walking the dog this morning, so that is definitely the opposite of shit.

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2019, 12:58:17 PM »
I recently received this review in one of the other areas in this forum, I just wasn't sure if it was Gloves of/On or no gloves at all...


Nice piece, good feel, and the handling of the forces was done well.


There are engraving issues however, particularly with slurs colliding with other components.


 8)

PaulAds

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