konalavadome

Studio speakers

  • 11 Replies
  • 523 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Skub

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3038
    • Soundcloud
« on: June 19, 2019, 08:12:54 PM »
And the setting up,thereof!

Being,as there is,very capable folk here who are well into their studios and tricky-assed gear and being one who mostly stumbles in the dark in such matters,I have a question.

My son has lent me a pair of M-Audio speakers (M3-6) and as I have no dedicated/treated recording space,I wonder if I may ask some pointers to make best use of the damn things.

Because of my constrictions I always record and mix using headphones (KRK KNS8400) so I have attempted to set up the speakers as close as I can to what I hear on the cans. I used Peter Gabriel Mercy Street as a reference track.

The first thing I did was to place the speakers distanced in an equilateral triangle,in relation to myself. The sides of the triangle are about 4 ft. I can't really alter this.

I set the speakers at a height where my lug holes are roughly between the tweeter and the woofer (do they still call them that?  ;D)

I then began to use the EQ on the back of the speakers to get as close to the cans as possible. (I didn't move anything much)

What do you experts think,should I just go back to the cans and forget about speakers,since the room is never gonna be treated.

In addition and in general,do knowledgeable folk hear areas for improvement in my mixes. Are they toppy,bassy or shrill? I always aim for a full/clear sound,but I'm never really sure if I always get there. I do play the results on a range of different players and to my ears nothing seems badly out of whack.

All replies welcome and carefully considered,just don't get too technical on my ass,because,Yanno I bore easily and stop listening!  ;D
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 08:14:32 PM by Skub »

cowparsleyman

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What would you rather be or a wasp?
    • Cowparsleyman on Soundcloud
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2019, 03:09:05 PM »
Whato @Skub - I'm a bear of little brain (as Whinny the Pooh once said) when it comes to technicalities like this, like you I let me lugoles do the talking, I do 99% of my work under my cans (AKG Q701 - they are very flat) and only pop the mix though my JBL L46's (also very flat) if I'm unsure of something, such as a slap bass EQ in a busy mix, but then I'll go back under the cans to fix it.

I use my speakers for confirmation, a 2nd opinion if you will, not reference, that takes you down a potentially divergent yet recursive path...sounding better on the monitors, then what do you do, stop using the cans?

It sounds like you've got your placement right, Are you happy with how they sound? Do you think you'll be forever changing the mix based on what you hear in 2 different references?

Personally I think your production sounds fine, and have never heard anything that jars, and if you are happy with your prod and your process, then give em back to your Son.

Hope this helps...

Skub

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3038
    • Soundcloud
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 12:43:15 PM »
Yo @cowparsleyman.

Thanks very much for taking the time to answer. The way you utilise your speakers and cans seems logical to me and a method which gives a fairly instant frame of reference. That's what I'll do for the next while.  :)

I hear/read so much of studio bods stating that recording/mixing on headphones is a no no,but we all have to work in the given spaces we have,so we adapt and make the best of what we have.

I am reassured if someone as clued in as yourself is able to produce very polished work using cans,then there is hope for me.

Once again man,I appreciate your time and helpful comments.  8)

cowparsleyman

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What would you rather be or a wasp?
    • Cowparsleyman on Soundcloud
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2019, 01:16:04 PM »
@Skub -You're very welcome Davy, here's a couple more things...(You'll know all this anyway, but maybe for other considering it)

Under really good cans you don't hear any colouration from the room acoustics, dogs barking outside, an open window bleeding noise from outside.e. it's a constant environment.
The Stereo soundstage is close and very often exaggerated, which can be a help rather than trying to pick out stereo placement, my cans do this, and I'm glad of it.
Effects can be very subtley used, as I tend to do with LVox.
If you need to alter the proximity effect from a track, or if you want to use a de reverb plugin like SPL deverb, or proximity EQ it's much easier to do under cans.
You can listen really loud, or really quiet
You don't wake the others with noise
You get into the groove

The only time I'd rather have speakers over cans is when a bunch of you (a band + Producer or mixing engineer + Producer )are discussing a song...

With my production, a small part of it lies in the fact that I can hear every sound under my cans, and position it EQ, verb and soundstage wise where I want.

the only thing I would say is that Open Back Cans give a much more 'real/flat' sound, not very bassy at all, I only use my closed backs for tracking and drumming...

Do what your ears tell you Davy...(Others might feel differently about it, this is just my approach)

Hope it helps.


shadowfax

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • Singer songwriter
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2019, 04:47:51 PM »
your mixes always sound fine Skub..if it aint broke..don't fix it...innit!!! :) :) 8)

Boydie

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3640
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2019, 04:53:13 PM »
The only thing I would add to the excellent responses so far is just be mindful of how close you place the speakers to the wall - there is usually a sweet spot of how near the back of the speaker should be to the wall

I also a big fan of using good headphones

There are also methods to get a real world speaker emulation - eg VRM Box and Waves NX - so the best of both worlds
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

Skub

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3038
    • Soundcloud
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 05:10:14 PM »
Thank you @Boydie and @shadowfax,as ever this little corner of the webz is always informative and helpful.   8)

cowparsleyman

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What would you rather be or a wasp?
    • Cowparsleyman on Soundcloud

Boydie

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 3640
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 07:00:30 AM »
@cowparsleyman

Not the NX but most definitely the VRM box

I am devastated that this is discontinued, and doesn’t work on USB 3, so it is only a matter of time until I need to retire it - but it is just soooooooooo good for evaluating mixes as it can simulate a lot of different listening environments

The key to using it is not to expect the simulations to be “accurate” for the areas (eg a certain speaker in a pro studio, hifi system in a bedroom, tv speakers in a living room etc. but the different flavours definitely do give a good feel for how a mix will translate to different systems
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

cowparsleyman

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What would you rather be or a wasp?
    • Cowparsleyman on Soundcloud
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2019, 07:03:54 AM »
@Boydie - I rememebr there was thread about this some while ago, and on the back of that I downloaded the free BeyerDynamic plugin that does the same, which I rarely use since my workflow is pretty established now, interesting anyway. I might look at NX one day, just out of curiosity.

Thanks


Cawproductions

  • *
  • Platinum Album
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
  • Producer, Engineer & Songwriter
    • Facebook page
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2019, 08:20:14 PM »
Hi all,

Just a quick chip in, most has been said anyway,

I did a room measurent using REW and a ref mic and found a deep dip at arounf 80hz in my room, This was due to the distance the speakers are from the wall, I read that its best to get them either as close to the wall as poss (thats why studios have them actually in the wall) or calculate the wavelength and move them to the set distance away from the wall, Usually not an option as the measurement is quite far and would end up in the middle of the room for most people.

A couple of years ago, if you mixed/mastered with headphones you would burn in hell. How times change.

Good times.

Jambrains

  • *
  • Platinum Album
  • ****
  • Posts: 788
  • Jim Steinman ftw!
    • Jambrains
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2019, 08:38:49 PM »
Running Sonarworks on both monitors and cans, instant Nirvana  :D :D :D