the 4 track song

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shadowfax

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« on: May 20, 2019, 06:50:08 PM »
Before you listen to this be aware that there is nothing wrong with your gear..wow and flutter and drop outs in biblical proportions are present in this recording,
the Fostex A250 (if I remeber correctly) that I borrowed from a friend of a friend was near to total collapse and the cassette in it was in really bad nick with a few twists here and there.....did this as an experiment...

recorded drums ( Roland TR-8 rhythm performer, borrowed) and bass at the same time to one track, then guitar to 2nd track and vocal to 3rd track then bounced these to 4th track...
then piano, harmonies and some synth to one of the 3 newly available tracks and electric guitar and another vocal and some synth to the other newly available track, the vocal dissappears a bit in the bridge because I couldn't continue the vocal where the electic guitar is..
then bounced these down to the third available track along with the stuff that was bounced to the 4th track at the start of the song. ..added some chop guitar during this bounce..lost a lot of top end in this procedure.
then I bounced the 'finished' track to another track so I can achieve a sort of psuedo stereo which seemed to work quite well..had to brighten one side a bit by running it through my mixing desk and using the eq on it.
brain freeze was a recuring feature during this recording session and had re do things quite a lot due to forgeting where something was and recording over it. I didn't take notes so can't guarantee the procedure is absolutely correct..it's sort of..ball park..

did a bit of mastering to brighten it up a little and made it louder.

will not be doing it again in a hurry!! @Boydie @pompeyjazz @Skub @PaulAds @PaulyX

https://soundcloud.com/knmac/only-in-the-rain-4-track-by-knmac/s-E6OhV

best, Kevin :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:56:41 PM by shadowfax »

PaulAds

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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2019, 07:40:29 PM »
This is very cool, Kev...it's a brilliant idea...makes you realise how lucky we are to have all the gear that's available nowadays...though hearing this makes me pine a little for the simplicity of yesterday...

I've done quite a few songs over the years that only had 4 tracks to them anyway...guitar,bass,dums and a vocal. I still like to keep things to a minimum really...I'm revisiting a load of my old songs with just an acoustic guitar and one vocal for an album... It's a great exercise...to strip them back to the essence of what they were all about in the first place. Quite a few have fallen by the wayside, but some have taken on a life of their own.

Anyway...You have the most important ingredient here...which is...a great song that's really worth recording.

Bravo!

Suitably impressed and inspired...i intend to get back to basics in the near future!

I'd like to do a cover version of this, when I get a minute...just using four tracks...would you mind?


pompeyjazz

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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2019, 08:52:50 PM »
This is brilliant Kev. It's like finding an old tape at the back of the drawer labled "Demos 1982" I really admire your perseverance and skill getting this together and love the analogue warmth which is now often lost. Like Paul says, it's quite amazing what we all can achieve with technology these days but the problem often lies with having too many toys in the box and playing with them all at the same time. I'm very guilty of that. I'm aiming to get a bit more stripped down in arrangements. The main thing here is this is a fabulous song  :) Brilliant memories of when we borrowed a TEAC 4 track for a weekend,  padded the windows with my mates parents mattress while they were away on holiday,  laughed, smoked, drank, sung, and produced a single tape that got lost. Frigging excellent work Kev, I love it, and you've got B7 in there so I love it even more

shadowfax

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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2019, 05:42:26 AM »
This is very cool, Kev...it's a brilliant idea...makes you realise how lucky we are to have all the gear that's available nowadays...though hearing this makes me pine a little for the simplicity of yesterday...

I've done quite a few songs over the years that only had 4 tracks to them anyway...guitar,bass,dums and a vocal. I still like to keep things to a minimum really...I'm revisiting a load of my old songs with just an acoustic guitar and one vocal for an album... It's a great exercise...to strip them back to the essence of what they were all about in the first place. Quite a few have fallen by the wayside, but some have taken on a life of their own.

Anyway...You have the most important ingredient here...which is...a great song that's really worth recording.

Bravo!

Suitably impressed and inspired...i intend to get back to basics in the near future!

I'd like to do a cover version of this, when I get a minute...just using four tracks...would you mind?



Hi Paul, the simplicity of yesterday only exists if you only use 4 instruments on 4 tracks..otherwise it's really hard work..LOL
no problem if you wanna cover the song mate..no problem at all..surprised you like this song given the sloppy lyrics Paul..
@PaulAds
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:57:14 AM by shadowfax »

shadowfax

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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2019, 05:50:25 AM »
This is brilliant Kev. It's like finding an old tape at the back of the drawer labled "Demos 1982" I really admire your perseverance and skill getting this together and love the analogue warmth which is now often lost. Like Paul says, it's quite amazing what we all can achieve with technology these days but the problem often lies with having too many toys in the box and playing with them all at the same time. I'm very guilty of that. I'm aiming to get a bit more stripped down in arrangements. The main thing here is this is a fabulous song  :) Brilliant memories of when we borrowed a TEAC 4 track for a weekend,  padded the windows with my mates parents mattress while they were away on holiday,  laughed, smoked, drank, sung, and produced a single tape that got lost. Frigging excellent work Kev, I love it, and you've got B7 in there so I love it even more

thanks John, Was originally gonna use a Teac 4 track, bought it on Ebay but the damn thing didn't work and a friend of a friend had a Fostex thing, (wish I'd known this before spending money on Ebay) the wow and flutter thing is a big problem though and a chewed up tape is an even bigger one...great being in music at the mo, if you wanna keep it simple you can..if you wanna use a million tracks, you can..

B7 ..yeah, a great chord...you must have good ears mate, I can never tell what chords peeps are using..can't even figure my own out on some old songs.
@pompeyjazz

best, Kevin
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:58:02 AM by shadowfax »

tboswell

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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 08:36:04 AM »
Really cool little project Kev! Really the song and the sound takes me back, the wowing, the hiss at the end. I guess sometimes the limitations are the things that really help us be creative, forcing us out of our comfort zone to make something new (or old!). Great stuff!
 
I always go back to Bruce Springsteen on this, one of his finest records Nebraska, was demoed at home on 4 track but he didn't quite like the band recordings they made afterwards. He dumped them and released the 4 track demos as the record, at it is really amazing. Shows that artistic bravery he is not always given credit for.

@PaulAds
hearing this makes me pine a little for the simplicity of yesterday...
WTF! I remember it being crazily complicated, all that bouncing and playing live while you bounce. It added a strange element of planning and frisson on danger we don't have any more

shadowfax

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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 08:41:10 AM »
Really cool little project Kev! Really the song and the sound takes me back, the wowing, the hiss at the end. I guess sometimes the limitations are the things that really help us be creative, forcing us out of our comfort zone to make something new (or old!). Great stuff!
 
I always go back to Bruce Springsteen on this, one of his finest records Nebraska, was demoed at home on 4 track but he didn't quite like the band recordings they made afterwards. He dumped them and released the 4 track demos as the record, at it is really amazing. Shows that artistic bravery he is not always given credit for.

@PaulAds
hearing this makes me pine a little for the simplicity of yesterday...
WTF! I remember it being crazily complicated, all that bouncing and playing live while you bounce. It added a strange element of planning and frisson on danger we don't have any more

Yeah, it certainly wasn't simple, made my head ache! like i mentioned in another post, if you just use 4 tracks and only 4 instruments then I s'pose it would be simple but then rather restrictive..

Bill Saunders

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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2019, 09:06:45 AM »
Makes me grateful for all my toys! I honestly don't know if I'd have had the patience to record like this back in the day. It's a beautiful song that deserves the modern treatment because the extreme wow and flutter makes it a novelty/experiment rather than a great listen.

PaulAds

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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2019, 09:12:28 AM »
Pah...you crazy perfectionist types  :)

I saw the ramones at the Mayfair ballroom in Newcastle a hundred years ago. 4 blokes, so just 4 tracks...and the only bouncing was the crowd.

I have to be honest...i could only really hear four tracks in this...or I felt like that was all you really needed. That was why I thought about doing it that way.

The quality on my old fostex x30 was fine, but bouncing tracks to free up stuff for extra bits always proved such a ball-ache, I rarely bothered unless I thought it was necessary... Which i hardly ever did.

In another thread, Kev mentioned the beatles and I was struck by the let it be naked album... Whereby the band wanted to cut all the multitrack bobbins out and get back to basics.

Comparing the two versions of the long and winding road is, to me, I think, a perfect example of how much better it sounded without all the (Phil Spector?) twaddle clagged on to it.

I saw part of a supertramp concert the other night...it looked like there were about 14 of them...and they all looked like 1970s geography teachers...i only saw a few seconds of it because the remote control for the TV was about a yard away from me. I daresay they were excellent etc but I couldn't be tossed with them and their overblown masterpieces.

Sorry...wemt off on one there a bit.

I like it as simple as possible, really. Life's too short.

PaulAds

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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 09:22:54 AM »
And I thought that bouncing things around was too much of a compromise for the absolutely vital main elements of guitar, bass and drums that I believe rock and roll is essentially all about.

shadowfax

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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2019, 09:55:13 AM »
Makes me grateful for all my toys! I honestly don't know if I'd have had the patience to record like this back in the day. It's a beautiful song that deserves the modern treatment because the extreme wow and flutter makes it a novelty/experiment rather than a great listen.

it was always a novelty/experiment my friend..
@Bill Saunders

adamfarr

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« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2019, 11:08:13 AM »
You crazy cat! The wow thing is a real bummer but most everything else sounds really pretty good. Would you do anything different next time I wonder? I was thinking that probably I would do vocals last or on a separate track as they'd be the thing you'd want to get "least lost"... The whole arrangement would need thinking through in real detail - a bit of a lost art I think. Impressive stuff.

Skub

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« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2019, 12:27:45 PM »
Yo Kev.

Wow and Flutter overload. You'd think at times it was an effect which was synced in time with the track!  8)

Man,this sound brings back the memories of juggling two mono cassette players and bouncing from one to the other,all with hideous degradation in sound.Then at a crucial point in the proceedings someone would open your bedroom door and ruin it all...time to start again!

Setting aside the wow aspect,the sound is pretty damn good. Cassettes were the work of the devil,for sure.

Love the song Kev and there's always the danger it would be forgotten while we talk about the experiment.

I'm as nostalgic as anyone,but man don't we have real tools right now and they make it so much easier to be creative,all without being exhausted at the end of things.  ;D

Sometime soon I hope to try a 4 track song myself. I'll do it in Logic not in a tape machine! I'm gonna try to just use 4 tracks and not cheat,just to see if I can make a song stand without frills.

Thanks for posting this up Kevin. Totally entertaining man.  8)

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shadowfax

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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 10:47:09 AM »
Reckon it's been up long enough so taking the song down now, experiment over..movin on..