Vocal EQ Dilemma

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Boydie

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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2020, 09:16:15 AM »
@cowparsleyman @Jack Simmons

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I nearly always mix and master under cans, to me it's the most intimate and accurate place to work.

I completely agree @cowparsleyman

My personal view is that the advantages of mixing on cans (ie taking the room effect out of the equation) far outweigh the disadvantages

Combining headphones and headphones with speaker simulation (Focusrite VRM or Waves NX) can allow you to hear your mixes in a variety of simulated environments and even on different systems

This can really help with tweaking and learning how mixes will translate to different systems

I would also include "real world" listening such as monitors, speakers, mobile phones, and the tried and trusted "sitting in the car"

But a big +1 to headphone from me (as long as you have an awareness of the pitfalls)
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shadowfax

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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2020, 07:59:13 AM »
I mix on Beyer dynamic DT 770 pro headphones,, I have two pairs of speakers but I don't use them for checking anything..just the odd blast of a song.....I think you just need to get used to your headphones and by the way, every song I've heard from you sounded fine here.. :)

@Jack Simmons
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cowparsleyman

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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2020, 08:57:15 AM »
I mix on Beyer dynamic DT 770 pro headphones,, I have two pairs of speakers but I don't use them for checking anything..just the odd blast of a song.....I think you just need to get used to your headphones and by the way, every song I've heard from you sounded fine here.. :)

@Jack Simmons

@Jack Simmons - I agree with shadowfax, I've never heard bad things in your mixes, not even the demo of "Habit of a lifetime" you sent me.

Trust your ears Jack, and if you find that you are forever twiddling the mix after you have released something, that's a surefire sign that your mixing environment isn't telling you the truth.

jacksimmons

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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2020, 04:56:37 PM »
Thank you for the replies guys. what was once alien and impenetrable to me a few years ago is actually becoming super interesting. I am glad there wasn't total aversion to the room correction software. I have read elsewhere people saying it wasn't at all worth it. I am yet to use it on a big project, but I almost have another album of songs to get to work on. I will report back about the results.

@Boydie I think I have gotten to know my headphones pretty well. (KNK on your recommendation I believe). I recognise the exaggerated stereo field and this can often cause me to mix vox too low in them which I will have to compensate for. Is it worth solely mixing on headphones? I noticed all you guys have said you stick to your cans. I sort of switch between cans and studio speakers and aim for something that sounds goodish on both.

@cowparsleyman that software looks very interesting. I can't afford it right now unfortunately but I'm adding it to the list. I may try out Waves NX, though. 
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jacksimmons

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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2020, 04:57:22 PM »
I think you just need to get used to your headphones and by the way, every song I've heard from you sounded fine here.. :)
@Jack Simmons

Thanks @shadowfax That's a good sign I am heading in the right direction.
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Boydie

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« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2020, 06:22:23 PM »
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I sort of switch between cans and studio speakers and aim for something that sounds goodish on both.

And that is exactly the name of the game!!!  ;D
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cowparsleyman

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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2020, 09:52:40 PM »
@jacksimmons - tell me more about your experiences with Arc.

Kafla

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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2020, 06:24:55 PM »
I bought waves NX today on the back of this...it’s on special and a pretty amazing plugin...

Quick question for the techs ?

When I enter the plugin it seems to be increasing my output by a couple of dbs - is this normal ? In my own mind if it’s just for mointoring I don’t know why it’s doing that 🤯

Great thread btw 👏🏻👏🏻

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2020, 10:34:37 AM »
I bought waves NX today on the back of this...it’s on special and a pretty amazing plugin...

Quick question for the techs ?

When I enter the plugin it seems to be increasing my output by a couple of dbs - is this normal ? In my own mind if it’s just for mointoring I don’t know why it’s doing that 🤯

Great thread btw 👏🏻👏🏻

Hi Andy, this is interesting, have you got the cam setup so it follows your head? do update this to let me know how you get on with it.

I honestly don't know about the increase in volume,  if you master externally to your DAW, then you might need to allow a bit more, if you master the mix either in the same session as the mix, then you'll be fine, how did you spot it? do you use a Adptr A/B plug?

@jacksimmons  - O by the way, I remembered something there is a plugin called Expose made by Mastering the Mix, and that'll check your loudness etc, it's pretty basic but do a few handy things, they do some nice mastering check tools at quite a low cost.

Hope this helps

jacksimmons

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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2020, 01:45:10 PM »
Awesome thanks @cowparsleyman I will check that out instead.

Another quickie: When switching between my speakers and headphones, should I be switching off the room correction? I assume because they are correcting THE ROOM, I shouldn't need the EQ for the headphones?

If that's the case I should expect the sound between my speakers and cans to be closer than before?

Although I think I know the answer already I thought I'd run it past you guys anyway.
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cowparsleyman

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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2020, 02:01:06 PM »
Awesome thanks @cowparsleyman I will check that out instead.

Another quickie: When switching between my speakers and headphones, should I be switching off the room correction? I assume because they are correcting THE ROOM, I shouldn't need the EQ for the headphones?

If that's the case I should expect the sound between my speakers and cans to be closer than before?

Although I think I know the answer already I thought I'd run it past you guys anyway.

jack, it really depends on the headphones, it's very likely they will not be near the same as the corrected speaker environment.

Even if they are really top end reference cans, it's unlikely they'll respond the same.

The same speakers will sound different if wound up to very loud, to being very quiet, the human ear perceives frequencies differently and different SPL's (Sound Pressure Levels)

In my experience, I would decide which environment I want to work in most, cans or speakers, and then stick to that, don't jump about too much, you'll find it hard to judge, and start changing the mix, based on the differences you hear, it's really important to have a fixed reference environment.

I tend to listen in Mono as I go, to me that's more important than listening on speakers.

I know it's useful to keep the cans at a fixe level, try not to touch the Monitor level, and you'll find your mixes will be comparatively even, use the usual loudness meters, and keep an eye on the DR (Dynamic Range), generally a wide DR is a more interesting mix.

The other thing is how you approach a mix, for example I have phases where I want a bit more bass in my mixes, and I can only control that if I know my environment like the back of my hand, also how my tools work, one has to know how say the Elysia Alpha Compressor's LPF works as opposed to the Shadow Hills Class A, you can only get consistent results if that is the only thing that is changing, once you introduce too many variables, I only use my speakers as a post production check, and say Yip that's sounds OK, then in the car, and as a private stream from soundcloud on a couple of different earbuds.

If on all those sources it sounds OK, then bingo.


Hope this helps



jacksimmons

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« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2020, 07:38:57 PM »
@cowparsleyman @Boydie

I plan to start recording again soon, and I was considering recording a new tune and mixing it three ways from scratch, using different methods (one with the Arc 2.0 on and using just my speakers to mix, one with it off and using just the headphones, and one with it off but aiming for something that sounds acceptable on both).

If I post all three when they are done it would be awesome to get some feedback as to which one you guys think sounds better on your end.

Same goes for anyone else commenting or reading this thread.

I may be overthinking things, worrying too much etc. I don't know.
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cowparsleyman

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« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2020, 08:07:26 PM »
@jacksimmons - Of course I’ll try and help...what are you going to record?

jacksimmons

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« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2020, 09:21:54 PM »
@jacksimmons - Of course I’ll try and help...what are you going to record?

Great :D

I have had a bit of a rush these last two weeks and written almost an album's worth of material, so I will record one of these songs. That way any feedback will be useful going forward with the sound of the rest of the tracks.

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Boydie

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« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2020, 07:30:33 AM »
@jacksimmons

It would be a pleasure

It would be good to do this “blind” - ie don’t let anyone know how each version was mixed to remove any unconscious bias

It is all important to remember that we can try to be objective but choosing a “best” mix will still be quite subjective -  it definitely a worthwhile experiment
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